Accreditation

Reschsmooth

I understand that certain Italian authorities in the Italian food/hospitality (or perhaps foreign affairs, not too sure) are seeking to establish certain accreditation or other standards in the way pizza is sold in restaurants. The idea is to curb certain restaurants who sell thai chicken pizzas from calling themselves Italian restaurants.

Now, whilst espresso, and indeed coffee may not have originated from Italy, is there some merit in introducing industry standards which can only allow those coffee houses who produce appropriately textured milk, and appropriately extracted espresso from calling their drinks espresso, ristretto, cappuccino, latte, etc, so others would be forced to call their 'product' generic names like 'black coffee', 'frothed milk coffee' etc.

I don't have a problem with a sandwich shop selling coffee, or a chinese restaurant providing after dinner coffee, etc, but, unless they meet a standard, they should not be allowed to use the term 'espresso', etc.

This will allow those coffee houses who pride themselves on the production of beautiful espresso and milk to label themselves (implicitly) as such through appropriate accreditation or something.

Any thoughts (hey, and I haven't mentioned issues surrounding policing of this, but I am not in the industry so I can leave that  to you guys.... ;D)

Patrick

ristretto

Patrick, The Italians are way ahead of you and have had a standard for many years.   They even designed the specifications for what the Insituto Nazionale Espresso Italiano deemed the perfect espresso.  Here is the web site link and their specs.  Essentially if you have the right machine, man, coffee and method you can carry a special insignia on your cafe.   Here is the blurb from their web site. "What characteristics

Reschsmooth

Ristretto, I admist that you undoubtedly know more about espresso than I do, but if a standard espresso (25mls) makes a milk based coffee too bland - are you using too much milk? P

FreshCoffee2

Hi Ristretto, thanks for posting the weblink address and the information here. The first thing that springs to mind is that...this is open to enterpretation. Your point about the 7 grams +/- is well said and is a good example of how those without a proper background knowledge can read the specification (any specification for that matter) as published....and get it wrong in any case. These would be those for example who do not know that there are various sized filters supplied depending on the market for which the espresso machine is destined to be sold into, and therefore an attempt to make an espresso with 7 grams of grounds, in a filter that holds say 9 or 12 grams (i.e. in a place other than Italy) , is destined to fail as it simply constitutes the act of under dosing in the larger filter...in this case 7 grams is not the correct dose at all. When reading into such "definitions or specifications" then, it would be best to go looking to see if there is some kind of "disclaimer" included by the author to cover the various exceptions to the rule. In terms of the rest of the specification as posted, here are a few more comments that might be of interest to readers especially from the point of view of looking past the face value of it: "Necessary portion of ground coffee = 7 g

Reschsmooth

Firstly, I have seen a barista use a stop watch when extracting. Secondly, I am more than happy to take on the role of CoSEP at the weekday rate of $200 per hour, and $300 per hour for weekends. (and of course sleeping tablets for when I actually want to get some sleep) ;D

ristretto

Patrick, The stop watch is good under the following situations: a.  dialling your machine in to deliver a predefined amount of water.  This is so your relatively inexperienced staff, if they dose the right amount of coffee, will give an ok extraction b. testing grind size, by that I mean if you have the right grind size you should get an appropriate amount of liquid in a measuring cup.  I use the little medicine cups to see how everything is . Having said all of that:  I only did this when learning the science of espresso.  When the technical stuff was learned and I had pulled thousands of coffees the art took over and can now judge by the look of the extraction if all the variables are ok. In addition I have had the circuit card on the machine modded to preinfuse.  This will soak the cake with some water and swell to reduce the amount of disruption from 9 bar worth of water hitting it cold. Sorry about the long winded reply. Ristretto  8)

Reschsmooth

I don't think anyone could suggest their response was long winded - isn't that right, Fresh?  ;D The guy I saw with a stop watch was considered one of the better baristas in Crows Nest by another top barista in the area. I guess, it is better that he strive for some kind of consistency than not, despite one's experience. P

ristretto

Let me guess you were watching the guy at BN in Alexander St Crows Nest?

Reschsmooth

He doesn't use a stop watch, as far as I can tell, but another dude he suggested (in a way) whose espresso I do enjoy, does.

Reschsmooth

I guess the other point about things like stop watches, scales for tamping on, etc is that at least these people know or have an idea that there should be some standard or process, rather than the wait staff who get a coffee order, know that they have to click this thing to get coffee into this holder thing and shove it into the machine and press a button and hey, coffee comes out.

ristretto

Let me guess you were watching the guy at BN in Alexander St Crows Nest?

FreshCoffee2

Patrick, if you knew me, if you really really knew me, you would know that my posts are NOT long winded at all, as they are quite normal for me! Now what was the topic again, I lose my train of thought in posts this short...perhaps I ought to get the stopwatch out and make sure I havent gone over the time limit... oops! FC.

Unknown

Accreditation for cafes and resteraunts who use "ITALIAN" products. May be the Italian are trying to boost their exports to us by trying this Fake accreditation. They feel because we buy from products for use in our kitchens which aren't from Italy the resteraunts arn't giving people authentic food. Not so

Reschsmooth

Having re-read this particular thread, and bearing in mind other similar topics, I guess it's all well and good to have 'mechanical' specifications for espresso such as the 25 ml +/- 2, etc, but will that in itself ensure quality espresso? If steam wands are left crusty, if filters are oily, etc, would that not have a greater impact on espress than if the pressure was 11 bar or something like that? Another point often raised is the issue of public awareness of and demand for better quality espresso. I have had a re-think of this, and part of me thinks: "Why should we?". Shouldn't the impetus be on the EMO's to ensure that they follow a few standard guidelines (in excess of those posted by the learned Ristretto)? A lot of other industries ensure standards irrespective of consumer demands and knowledge. Just because a consumer may not know that the temp in the cup should be 64-70 degrees does not mean they should put up with Barista Joe Crap serving coffee that would cool on the sun or reheating milk for the 10th time. When you buy a bottle of wine, you may not know the intricacies of what preservatives go into it, or the minimum level of shiraz that must be included to be able to call it a shiraz (85%?), etc, but you expect a certain minimum standard in the production of the wine - you don't want ethyl glycol (coolant?) to be included. You don't have to be a winemaker to expect standards, just like you don't have to be a roaster/barista to expect standards with coffee, even if you don't know what those standards are. The people behind the machine should not think they can 'get away with' substandard product. Anyway, that's my 12 cents Patrick