VST filter baskets.

Gra · June 2011

on 1308725223:

Hi guys, vst baskets have landed, postal orders have gone today and other pre orders are available for collection. Don't have any more 18's left - more on the way early July. 22's in stock but you will need a deep pf or naked for these. charlie

Cheers charlie looking forward to having a play.. gra..

Dry_bean. · June 2011

on 1308725223:

Hi guys, vst baskets have landed, postal orders have gone today and other pre orders are available for collection. Don't have any more 18's left - more on the way early July. 22's in stock but you will need a deep pf or naked for these. charlie

Thanks Charlie, just received despatch notification, if I'm lucky will have it by the weekend. Great service. ;D

Gra · June 2011

Well my VST basket arrived this morning just in time for morning coffee :-* The results "fantastic" I set about doing my first shot with every thing as is for my 12g basket that I use for single shots and pulled a 30ml 19sec for my first attempt.. In the cup where it counts I was amazed at how creamy the full it felt in the mouth I am not very good at explaining different tastes but all I can say this basket is worth every penny

My method for dosing is to fill to brim then one bench tap top up and lightly chop with a splayed level light tamp tap full tamp twist for polish this mornings cup was PNG Waghi AA In too words Bloody beautiful :P :P Cheers Gra..

blanyon · June 2011

After a small play my only coment is that they are different. I need to play with them more to get the best out of them but they do change the game that's for sure. Brett

Dry_bean. · June 2011

Still waiting on the postie, 2 plus days for a small package Sydney to SA, perhaps something to do with airline disruptions due to ash cloud. ???

Dry_bean. · June 2011

Arrived this morning, as well as 10Kg of green beans from Bean Green and a Lonely Planet guide to Vietnam, how exiting ::) I've used it (the filter basket) did the earth move? not quite, yet to do a direct comparison, will keep you posted. ;D

hazchem · June 2011

I've had VST baskets in the Linea at work for the last week and am pretty happy with the results so far. I'm cautiously optimistic at the moment. There has been a definite improvement in our shots, but only a small amount. As it turns out, we desperately need to put new blades in our Robur, which will be taken care of tomorrow. New baskets are nice and all, but they aren't going to show us much the way our coffee is being smashed at the moment! :o

Dry_bean. · June 2011

Been using the 18 gram VST basket for a few days now, at this point I have to say if there is any improvement it's marginal at best. SWMBO is still enjoying her evening cappa and has not commented on any change and I'm still enjoying my AM long blacks and PM shots as much as ever with no perceived change in quality. Only cost me $43 to find out.::)

Gra · June 2011

on 1309393010:

Been using the 18 gram VST basket for a few days now, at this point I have to say if there is any improvement it's marginal at best. SWMBO is still enjoying her evening cappa and has not commented on any change and I'm still enjoying my AM long blacks and PM shots as much as ever with no perceived change in quality. Only cost me $43 to find out.::)

I must say that I have found that the VST basket has made a difference to my cupping and the feed back from friends is the best coffee they have had in a long time..I find it a much better basket then the Synesso both in Finnish and in the cup..I drink milk based coffee may be that's where the changers are more out standing. Cheers gra..

hazchem · July 2011

on 1309340729:

So after the new grinder blades, go back and put in the old baskets in and let us know what a side by side produces... AM

I'd need a second, identical in every way grinder to offer a side by side comparison with any validity I suspect.

mojo · July 2011

Thanks to all for your interest in the VST Precision Filters. A few comments and answers to your questions and observations. Sorry about the limitations of the VST site Re> UPS rates. We can ship USPS and refund the difference. We prefer to use USPS Express Mail service, because other methods are very slow. Just send an eMail requesting a change to USPS after the order is placed, we'll refund the difference. The site should be updated by August. Or, purchase from Pullman Tampers in AU, here: http://thingscoffee.com.au/index.php?manufacturers_id=5 They should have inventory in all sizes. FYI: there is an updated product outline here: http://vstapps.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/final_basket_brochure.pdf There are many attributes about the VST filters that make them superior to anything available previously. They're fabricated using material that is 20-25% thicker than standard filters. A standard triple filters weighs 26-29 grams, the VST triple weighs 36+ grams. This allows us to more tightly control both the dimensions, as well as utilize a new hole fabrication technology. This ensures that the product will not change extraction performance over its useful life, and that it won't fail due to premature stress fatigue failure, a concern in high volume cafe environments [that won't affect home users]. The holes are fabricated to very high precision for uniformity, allowing the insert to actually behave as a FILTER. That is, the distribution of the holes are narrowly confined to a spread of +/- 30

beanflying · July 2011

Hi Vince, thanks for joining up and for the information

Must get a set to play with too. For the members Jetblack one of our sponsors has the 18 and 22g baskets in stock too http://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/shop/ac/vst-coffee-parts/

hazbean · July 2011

Thanks for the update Vince. I emailed a couple of times about the postage but as I was getting ready to order I ran into Greg Pullman and found he had the 15g size I was looking for. So took my tamper in, found it was an exact fit and walked off with his last 15g basket (probably more in by now though). I'm very pleased with it, shot consistency, crema etc is excellent. But the comparison with my other 15g basket is a bit one-sided as it has a narrow base and is oversized at the top, so my tamping technique is completely different. I do have a precise fitting 18g Synesso basket but don't use that very often after switching to 15g dosing. A friend bought the 18g version at the same time and finds it a significant improvement over his 18g Synesso.

coffeehorse · July 2011

I can recommend these, however with a couple of caveats: 1) Established routines (eg. collapsing) may result in getting a lesser shot out of the baskets 2) Dosing may be significantly different for you depending on your machine - most home user showerscreens are much lower/higher than LM's Strada 3) Ridge may be at a 'wrong' height for your group - minor flaw I'm more than cautiously optimistic, however I'm not going to say any more yet until I've tested the espressoparts baskets I'm being sent for review. best, ch.

gregpullman · July 2011

It's worth noting that these baskets may require a different dosing technique to what you've used in the past. Anyone who's thinking about trying these units, or has tried them and is undecided about the results, should read Mark Prince's review on these http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/markprince/04-29-2011 If you can't be bothered reading the whole thing then this is a copy and paste of the relevant paragraphs: "There can be a bit of a learning curve to these baskets. I found that out myself when Fedele sent me a triple basket last summer. I tried it maybe a half dozen times, saw some flaws in the pour, and gave up. Last month I got a 17g basket. Again, saw some major flaws in my pours. I tweeted about it, and my good friend Andy Schecter wrote me the following: "Mark, I think your tweets about problems you're having with the basket may embarrass you in the end. There are pro baristas with some pretty famous names and pretty substantial street cred who like the baskets a lot. I suggest that the problems you're having may lie, as they say, "on the handle side of the portafilter."" Of course, I didn't much like getting this email, but it made me think: okay, I can't be right (these baskets suck!) and so many pros be wrong. So I did look at my technique and also had a very long phone call with Fedele. Then I figured out the problem. It was me. My tamping technique over the years evolved into something that (unconsciously) was helping overcome existing filter basket problems: namely the curved bottoms, the inconsistent hole sizes and more. I'd load up a filter basket with a central pyramid like cone, and avoid touching the coffee at all costs. I also would knock down the loading bed of coffee while grinding - one or two knocks at 1/3 full, another one or two knocks at 2/3 full. The result was a nice, even cone of coffee in the filter basket. This is why I liked the Anfim Super Caimano grinder so much: it can dose a nice even cone every time. Then I'd take my own tamper (one I designed) which has a trick: it leaves lots of coffee out at the edges. I don't want to get into too much detail about the tamper, but suffice to say, my dosing, leveling (ha!) and tamping technique left me with a bed of compressed coffee that had more density in the centre, and a lessening of that density as you go out to the outer edge. This resulted in pretty good extractions from most modern day filter baskets (especially my previous favourite, the Synesso 14g basket). But, using the same technique delivered questionable extractions in the new VST / La Marzocco baskets. Knowing some of the science behind extractions (and especially after my discussion with Fedele), I figured it out: since there's more straight-path flow in a VST basket, I was setting up an environment where the central part of my packs were not getting nearly as much water flow as the outer diameter was. Result: my extractions were poor, and showed many signs of a flawed extraction (bad ExtractMojo readings, pitting, fractures, jets, donut shaped pours from a chopped portafilter, etc etc)." The bottom line is that he's saying the technique is critical and that his problems were caused by technique 'hacks' to overcome prior deficiencies in his setup, i.e. heaped cone distribution + convex tamper to try to redistribute the coffee, undersized tamper leading to peripheral channelling. We've advocated against this sort of thing for a long time but it seems that with these baskets, 1) an even distribution of coffee grounds in the basket, plus 2) a tamper that tamps all the coffee, plus 3) a flat-base tamper to tamp all the coffee the same amount; is more important that ever. If you, like me, already do this, you'll probably find the results are improved over what you've used before. If not, as Andy Schecter says, "the problems you're having may lie, as they say, on the handle side of the portafilter.""

Greg

WotB · July 2011

My best results to date are with a standard dose (no up/down dosing) using my Pullman Deluxe that appears to fit perfectly, even with a different basket to the one it was fitted to.

Seeya Latte · July 2011

Hi Do people know if any shops have them here in Melb so I can 'touch' first or are they only available via the net from sponsors?

beanflying · July 2011

No one in Melbourne was retailing them as far as I know. There is a link to Jetblack a few posts up

http://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/shop/ac/vst-coffee-parts/ or as mentioned by Vince, Greg carries them too.

Seeya Latte · July 2011

Spew....I thought Adelaide was the backwater not Melb ;D

gregpullman · July 2011

If you do want to look at them in the metal first, you might try contacting Justin from Coffee Supreme in Abbotsford. I spoke to them early this week and they had some in transit; don't know if they're for retail or for their own use and whether or not they've arrived, but with all those disclaimers it's a lead if nothing else. Adelaide? A backwater? Meh! ;D Greg

Seeya Latte · July 2011

Thanks for that Greg PS. sorry about that little dig at SA, couldn't pass up on something so funny.

beanflying · July 2011

on 1311300257:

Spew....I thought Adelaide was the backwater not Melb ;D

Scary thing was they arrived first in the country in Brisbane :o OT just a touch and speaking of Coffee Supreme they are just in the throws of opening/opened a cafe in Abbotsford as part of their setup which would be worth the trip too. Back on the topic sounds like I will have some VST's to play with against my current Synesso pair so out with the gram scales, shot timers and nerdy gear for some testing to follow. Either that or just do it the old fashioned way does it taste better/worse or just different.

Dry_bean. · July 2011

on 1311310954:

Scary thing was they arrived first in the country in Brisbane :o OT just a touch and speaking of Coffee Supreme they are just in the throws of opening/opened a cafe in Abbotsford as part of their setup which would be worth the trip too. Back on the topic sounds like I will have some VST's to play with against my current Synesso pair so out with the gram scales, shot timers and nerdy gear for some testing to follow. Either that or just do it the old fashioned way does it taste better/worse or just different.

Sometimes I feel the nerdy equipment gets in the way of taste, but I guess as AM would say if yer tryin to compare like with like sometimes ya just gotta do it. ::)

rival81 · July 2011

I got mine from a guy who works at one drop. But anyone still looking for stock, ministry grounds are now selling them. I have the 18g and 22g but i usually use the 18g. Only use the 22g if i want a stronger cup.

mycuppa · July 2011

I hate to be the black-sheep or the odd man out ........and really did not want to post my views for fear of raising the shackles of those true believers..... Using one for the last 3 weeks - really can't see what all the fuss is about. Pulled about 400 shots across 17 different coffees including many SO's and different blends and on 6 different machines and 2 different portafilter configurations. One of my customers going 4000+ coffees a week ended up reverting back to his previous baskets after using for a few days. He just shrugged his shoulders and said, I liked my older baskets better. I was just thinking, perhaps VST's may help in cases where there could be more variability in the roast or grind. Just a personal opinion only and please understand I do not have a negative view of the VST's.

Cuppacoffee · July 2011

Hello mycuppa I've heard similar stories to yours, but only from people using the 18gm and not the 22gm baskets. I've been using the 22's and am happy to find more body in the cup and have the ability to split the extraction to make two acceptable singles. Shouldn't be surprised with that really, since I'm sure you can squeeze 25gm into one. What I like the most with the 22's, is to pour a single, 15 to 20ml ristretto. Makes me feel indulgent!

Dry_bean. · July 2011

on 1311320949:

I hate to be the black-sheep or the odd man out ........and really did not want to post my views for fear of raising the shackles of those true believers..... Using one for the last 3 weeks - really can't see what all the fuss is about. Pulled about 400 shots across 17 different coffees including many SO's and different blends and on 6 different machines and 2 different portafilter configurations. One of my customers going 4000+ coffees a week ended up reverting back to his previous baskets after using for a few days. He just shrugged his shoulders and said, I liked my older baskets better. I was just thinking, perhaps VST's may help in cases where there could be more variability in the roast or grind. Just a personal opinion only and please understand I do not have a negative view of the VST's.

Still not convinced either way, though after 3 weeks of daily use (18 gram VST) I'm finding that my shots have more crema and better mouth feel than I have ever experienced before. What I plan to do over the weekend is revert to the old LaMarzocco double, pull a few shots and make some comparisons, with luck will report back with result in a couple of days.

gregpullman · July 2011

on 1311320949:

I hate to be the black-sheep or the odd man out ........and really did not want to post my views for fear of raising the shackles of those true believers..... Using one for the last 3 weeks - really can't see what all the fuss is about. Pulled about 400 shots across 17 different coffees including many SO's and different blends and on 6 different machines and 2 different portafilter configurations. One of my customers going 4000+ coffees a week ended up reverting back to his previous baskets after using for a few days. He just shrugged his shoulders and said, I liked my older baskets better. I was just thinking, perhaps VST's may help in cases where there could be more variability in the roast or grind. Just a personal opinion only and please understand I do not have a negative view of the VST's.

Please don't hold back. I think it's very important for people to be able to raise their views openly, honestly and respectfully. This is not a shot at any other discussion place, it's just a general statement of fact I believe in. If that's how you feel then say it, and nothing wrong with the way you said it either!

Greg

Seeya Latte · July 2011

Spoke to Jetblack and they're not totally confident a 22 will fit in my mininova without going with a naked pf (which I don't have nor need right now). So I'll see how the 18gm goes.

WotB · July 2011

If you're using a Mininova, it will not fit without a naked PF. I found that out already.

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