Ponte Vecchio Lusso - advice please?

Brett H · March 2014

There's some lovely coffees on your list Moon! Thanks for sharing the journey :thumb:

Lacehim · March 2014

on 1396001391:

There's some lovely coffees on your list Moon! Thanks for sharing the journey :thumb:

Yeah, glad to see you back Moon. It's been too quiet without you. Sounds like your lusso is cracking out the shots!

Moon · March 2014

on 1396001391:

There's some lovely coffees on your list Moon! Thanks for sharing the journey :thumb:

The pleasure is all mine (<--- stole borrowed that line from KK) It's great to get to try out a few Merlo blends on my new setup. Apparently they have expanded their range. I'm also happy to be re-introduced to the Ethiopian beans .. as I had only tried them on my old Gaggia Baby, and was a bit disappointed at the time and as result - had been avoiding them since. I figure that with my new gear .. I should wipe the slate clean and discard any prior conclusions I had drawn using my inferior equipment .. and start off again with a fresh approach. Speaking of a fresh approach .. I reckon I'm in need of a few fresh celery & carrot juices to flush out my kidneys and liver .. as well as revitalizing my palate .. so that I can fully appreciate these new coffee beans I now have to try out. That was pretty full-on coffee consumption over the 5 days up at the Gold Coast. It was my nephews 21st .. and although they were overdosing on the alcoholic beverages, as you'd expect .. I was giving my Sister's Lelit coffee machine a solid workout and overdosing myself on the caffeine ... plus a few Bundy & Colas .. of course.

on 1396005965:

Yeah, glad to see you back Moon. It's been too quiet without you.

Good to be back .. wouldn't want the readers to think I must've kicked the bucket due to caffeine poisoning .. this isn't really the place to be doing that sort of thing .. eh .. or is it?

on 1396005965:

Sounds like your lusso is cracking out the shots!

Hopefully I've got all of the personality traits worked out .. and we now have a very pleasant working relationship. No problems .. other than the steam valve sticking a bit .. only that is a minor issue that doesn't bother me. Other than that .. the PV Lusso is working like a charm. Insulating the boiler and not having the machine on all day appears to be the key to not having any internal heat issues.

Had another Ethiopian Yirg today. Did the double fellini (to horizontal) and the pour was 25ml using just the one complete lever release. Heaps of crema .. only due to the shot being small .. I didn't fill the cup up with milk. Rating - 9.1/10 This score is on par with the Merlo Private blend .. only they are completely different coffees. How's this .. *Merlo is the Rafael Nadal of coffee *Ethiopian Yirgacheffe & mycuppa Guatemala are the Roger Federers. Completely different styles that produce excellent results.

Just to throw in another comparison The Ponte Vechio Lusso (single lever) coffee machine would be around $1,350 if available in Aus. My Compak Touch was around $500 Total = $1,850 My sisters Lelit coffee machine is around $630 in Aus .. and her Lelit grinder is approx $230 Total = $860 Using the same Merlo bean blend in both setups I rate the lattes I was making on the Lelit - 8.7/10 On my Lusso and Compak .. I rate the lattes - 9.1/10 For the extra $1,000 - the coffees produced go from very good at 8.5/10 to excellent at 9/10 The question is - is it worth the extra $1,000 for the better quality in every cup that you and your friends get to drink? For those who are happy with a really nice cup of coffee at the cheaper price - it would probably be no. For those wanting a top quality coffee each time .. and prepared to pay the extra for it - then yes, it is worth it. When I had my Gaggia Baby ($450) .. my aim was to eventually get a Rancilio Silvia and a Rocky grinder. Then I came onto this forum and CS .. and HB in the US to check out what the experienced coffee people were using .. and seek advice/opinions. A Silvia and Rocky combo was going to cost around $1,200 .. and I ended up spending $1,650. Do I have any regrets spending the extra $ to skip the Silvia & Rocky and upgrade to the PV lever & Compak? :rofl:

Moon · March 2014

Ground Control - Major Tom - bean blend - Day 8 (post roast) $35/kilo + $7 postage (I'll add cost/kg + post when reviewing beans) This is a more moist bean blend - and pours well .. unlike those drier types that you have to tamp like a gorilla and they still pour too quickly in my lever machine. 1. Medium tamp .. 1st extraction (lever release) 20ml in 25 secs .. I err'd as to whether to go the 2nd extraction to top it up .. I did after 90 secs which is a bit too long.. and figure this will affect the result in the cup. Mega crema Result - 9/10 2. 1st extraction 25 secs and went the 2nd + 10 = 35 secs for a 30ml shot. Full-bodied, good rich colour, not quite as smooth as the Yirg .. although the microfoam wasn't perfect this time, which I find does affect the result. Result - 9.15/10 A tad smoother would have given it a 9.2/10. An excellent blend.

Moon · March 2014

I emailed Glenn Anthony, the Master roaster from Ground Control to ask about ordering some more of his beans online .. as they are wholesalers. Glenn replied saying that ordering 500g would cost $7 postage .. and if I ordered a kilo he would keep it at $7 .. so I will shoot off an email later today to find out what the 'usual' postage is for a kilo .. in case it is more than the $7 I have included in the above post .. to keep it accurate in case anyone is considering ordering some. I also need to confirm whether the public can order .. or whether they only supply wholesale to Cafes/Restaurants etc. I intend trying another cup of his Major Tom beans for a second assessment before getting back to him later .. as well as brewing up another cup of the Ethiopian Yirgacheffe. Hmm .. that's some top quality coffee coming up right there. :coffee2: ps. Looks like the celery/carrot system flush is on hold for the mo. :angel:

At the time I was at their Cafe .. I tried 2 lattes .. one was the Major Tom .. and the other was an organic Peru (kontiki estate) that had won 2 medals (not sure what colour) at the Golden Bean awards.. and were dangling down from the counter. After trying the Major Tom first .. the latte made using this poor medal winning bean was consumed without any lingering thoughts.

Just had a Major Tom Pour - 1st extraction 25 secs + 10 secs for the 2nd = 35s for a 25ml shot. Rating - 9.15/10 Any rating of 9/10+ is a lovely coffee .. whereas an 8.9 drops off the pace. I'm getting more fussy in this group now .. which explains going to the 2nd decimal point to distinguish between the really nice pack scoring 9.1 and those I consider have the wow factor .. rating a 9.2. The Major Tom this time just fell short of that .. only I figure there will be slight variations between cups .. due to how my taste buds are traveling at the time, as well as preparation/extraction .. i.e. dose, tamp, pour time, shot volume etc. Next will be the Yirg. Yep .. some more joy to be had there. :P

Moon · March 2014

Ethiopian Yirgacheffe time My first attempt was a choker .. due to my cheap digital scales giving incorrect readings on bean weight, so I had to guess bean volume and packed the basket a little too full. I also made the error of tamping a little too firmly so as not to waste the excess grinds that would be left over. A case of false economy there .. as I ended up having to sink it and try again. For the second attempt .. I made sure the grinds weren't packed too tightly which resulted in a pour of 19ml in 25 secs from a single extraction. I decided to revert back to trying a piccolo latte (19ml in a 4oz/180ml cup) instead of doing the 2nd extraction to top up the shot to my preferred 25ml for the standard 6oz/180ml cup. The result made me wonder why I had decided to go for quantity in recent times instead of sticking with the quality that the piccolo lattes produced back in my early experimental days shortly after receiving my new PV Lusso machine. I guess I was trying to extend the coffee experience by sacrificing quality for quantity.. or perhaps falsely believing I could reproduce the flavour of the piccolo shot in a larger volume. It doesn't work that way ..as I have found out .. due to different levels/types of bean flavour being extracted as the pour continues. One member in here pointed this out to me a while ago. One advantage of having the dual lever model of the Lusso .. is that you can do 2 piccolos at virtually the same time.. when one is not enough. This is why I haven't warmed to the idea of drinking espresso ----> one sip and you're left thinking .. gee that was yummy .. is that it? What a tease that is. :'( I'd probably have to roll off about 3 double shots for starters in the morning .. and end up with caffeine poisoning after about a month. Rating - 9.2/10 The Yirg seems a mildish bean .. although having it as a piccolo adds to the body. A quality coffee all the way down .. even if its life-span is way too short. It's back to piccolos for me. :laugh: I guess I'll just have to indulge myself a little more often.

I've shot Glenn from Ground Control Coffee an email to find out about whether they sell to the public.

Moon · March 2014

ANNOUNCEMENT Tomorrow

ETHIOPIAN YIRGACHEFFE and GROUND CONTROL MAJOR TOM go Head to Head in *THE GRAND PICCOLO CONTEST*

THE GLOVES ARE OFF - IN THIS NO HOLDS BARRED SLUGFEST BETWEEN 2 COFFEE BEAN POWERHOUSES ... using the very capable Ponte Vecchio Lusso single lever coffee machine & Compak K3 grinder - in what is expected to be an eye-popping caffeine indulgence guaranteed to get my heart racing faster than Phar lap in his prime. *Must see viewing* .. don't miss it! :rofl:

Moon · March 2014

Must be close to getting the showdown started for the PICCOLO LATTE CONTEST. In the Red corner we have YIRGACHEFFE single origin - weighing in at 18 grams representing Ethiopia. Winner of 6 medals in the 2013 Golden Bean Awards Gold medal - Filter coffee Gold medal - single origin espresso Bronze medal - single origin espresso 3 Bronze medals - Syphon Hmm .. none for milk coffees .. ok In the Blue corner .. we have MAJOR TOM blend - from Ground Control, representing the world with their all-stars blend.. also weighing in at 18 grams. The new kids on the block .. with no wins on the board, as yet. Let's just say - these feisty little fellas have bean all fired up, and have bean jumping out of their skins with youthful enthusiasm for their 2nd crack at some coffee action. This is a best of 3 round contest of heart pounding caffeine proportions - comprising of.. 1st round - double shot piccolo latte in a 4oz cup 2nd round - single shot latte in a piccolo cup 3rd round - ? - *let's play this one by ear. I'll have had 8 single shots by this stage *If I find myself being wheeled along on a gurney, and hooked up to drip .. I may have to go IV for the final round.. and as you would be aware .. that takes all the fun out of it.. and I doubt the medical staff would be too impressed.

Round 1

Brett H · March 2014

We're waiting....

Moon · March 2014

The results are in. As I have sugar .. it was measured to be equal. I made the Yirg first and had it sitting on the warming tray. Both shots were one lever extraction, Yirg producing a 10ml shot and Major Tom 11ml. Both took 15 secs. Major Tom has slightly more crema and more colour in the glass 4oz cup Took them both out to my pergola with a pad and pen, rolled myself a Champion Ruby Gold .. took a couple of puffs then into it. Seeing the Yirg is a single origin .. I figured it would be milder than the blend .. so tasted it first. Ethiopian Yirgacheff Took about 4 sips .. consuming 2/3 of the cup. This was delicious. Major Tom - a bit stronger than the Yirg only wasn't quite as smooth as the Yirgacheffe Result Ethiopian Yirgacheffe - 9.3/10 Major Tom - 9.15/10 *Ethiopian Yirgacheffe roasted by Koffee Kosmo declared the winner of Round 1* Absolutely delicious.. if you can appreciate more subtle flavours - rather than requiring a more bold bean/blend. Next round I will do the double shot again .. instead of the single, as mentioned in above post. I will also make them apart this time, as tasting the Yirg first gave it a clear advantage - in my opinion. The first tasting is the critical one. The more subtle flavours of the Yirg were lost when going back to finish it off .. after tasting the Major Tom - which had more pronounced flavours.

Special thanks to my beautiful wife red Ponte Vecchio Lusso Coffee machine & Compak K3 grinder - as if it wasn't for you .. this would not be possible.

Round 2 Tomorrow :coffee:

Koffee_Kosmo · March 2014

Not bad for some humble home roasted beans :thumb: KK

Moon · March 2014

on 1396258533:

Not bad for some humble home roasted beans :thumb: KK

I must say they did appear the way I like 'em roasted when opening the pack. If you ever decide to say, do a weekly roast of a particular bean as part of your business .. and offer them up to Crema members .. I'd be in on that .. your roasting gets a big tick from me.. based on how this lot is shaping up in the cup.

Brett H · March 2014

on 1396262849:

I must say they did appear the way I like 'em roasted when opening the pack. If you ever decide to say, do a weekly roast of a particular bean as part of your business .. and offer them up to Crema members .. I'd be in on that .. your roasting gets a big tick from me.. based on how this lot is shaping up in the cup.

His roasting and his roaster get a big tick eh! :thumb:

Moon · March 2014

on 1396263113:

His roasting and his roaster get a big tick eh! :thumb:

Going by these Yirg beans .. that's affirmative. I take it .. it was the KKTO? I was looking at the roaster threads the other day .. and thought .. if I am to get back to roasting myself .. I'd want a complete roaster that I set and hit the on button.. otherwise I'm happy to leave it to the experienced roasters.

Ol Grumpy · March 2014

Aaaaah yes, I remember it well... Dick Smith towed an iceberg into Sydney Harbour on this day in 19?? So whose the loon? Huh? Enquiring minds want to know? Sry to high jack ur thread Mooney... Please resume normal transmission.... :edit I blame the bottle of Penfolds Reserve Shiraz... Or the loon who drank it.... Plumb with a hint of blackcurrant, if I'm not mistaken... And a dark Chocholate finish...

Moon · April 2014

^ Looks like Grumps enjoyed his Penfolds shiraz as much as I enjoyed the Yirg .. perhaps even a little more

Last night I made a double shot piccolo of Major Tom. The pour was 25 secs for about a 12ml single extraction. It ended up being way too strong for my taste, and now thinking a double dose basket for a piccolo, at least for the MT is overkill. I then made a single shot MT earlier today .. and it was much better, so Round 2 will be a single shot contest.

Round 2 ETHIOPIAN YIRGACHEFFE - piccolo latte Cup 1 Sugar was measured .. light to medium tamp .. the lever wanted to spring up a little quickly, so I did a double fellini. Once released, with the pour dripping, the lever shot up due to air still being in the cylinder and not being displaced by the water. I didn't at that stage want to go another fellini by pulling down the lever again .. so I allowed the extraction to compete itself. The result was a 10ml shot in 15 secs. After filling with milk .. it looked a little pale in colour. As I drank it .. I wasn't sure of the rating .. it was a little weak, although still nice, but wondered about how the air pocket had affected the extraction .. and decided, in fairness to the Yirg .. to make another to rate. Cup 2 The 2nd was tamped a little firmer .. in case this was the reason for the air pocket?? This extraction appeared much better .. producing a 20ml shot in 25 secs. There was more crema and more colour .. once filled with milk. When drinking .. it seemed like this was a properly made coffee, even if I do say myself .. as my aim when rating is to be fair on the beans by presenting them at their best .. and to produce its distinctive characteristics. I felt that this time .. I had achieved that - in the cup. Rating - 9.1/10 I hadn't previously been a fan of the Ethiopian coffees I'd tried (not that it was many) - due to a distinctive flavour I had identified back in my earlier days.. which I had attributed to beans grown in Ethiopia. I have since favored the Central American beans along with the odd beans from producers in Brazil. Although this was a well made coffee .. it was the actual flavour that did not appeal to me as much as many of the other beans I have tried from different regions. Having said that .. I rated the Ethipian Yirgacheffe a 9.3/10 in Round 1 - which is as good as I've had .. so go figure? I guess each coffee is appreciated for how it presents at the time of drinking. Perhaps it was overrated .. only one thing is certain - I must have really enjoyed it. You can take that to the Bank. Major Tom .. later Oh Yeah baby .. it's time ........ (thanks Gough)

Moon · April 2014

Results for Round 2 are in GROUND CONTROL - MAJOR TOM - piccolo latte (single shot) Sugar measured .. light to medium tamp The pour was rather quick producing 20ml in 10 secs. I thought this was too fast so I loaded up again. This time I tamped firmly which still poured a little quickly at 13 secs for 20ml. It might be my imagination .. but these grinds seemed a little drier than the Yirg. Rating - 9.15/10 I reckon the ideal pour for the piccolo .. for my taste is between 10 - 15ml .. rather than the 20ml both produced this time around. I will be adjusting the grind a little finer for the decider. I found these 20ml shots are a tad watery for me .. and prefer it a little more concentrated to achieve the richness that I like in the cup. Major Tom by Ground Control - declared the winner of Round 2. Although there wasn't much of a difference in the score - Yirg 9.1 and MT 9.15 .. the Major Tom was definitely nicer on this occasion. I'd say that if the shot was 10 or 15ml rather than 20ml .. the Major Tom would have rated a 9.2/10. The flavour of the MT was nicer than the Yirg .. so I figure the shorter shot wouldn't have improved the Yirgacheffe as much as the Major Tom beans. Using this smaller sized cup .. the single shot is ample. Round 3 - the decider .. will also be a single shot piccolo latte.. Don't miss it .. I certainly won't :rofl: *Thanks once again to my wonderful family - PV Lusso, Compak grinder & accessories. I love you

Moon · April 2014

The smackdown continues towards its dramatic conclusion. Can KK's Yirgachecheffe reproduce its stunning form in Round 1 .. or can the new kids from Tweed Heads - Major Tom .. take home the bacon? Stay tuned folks .. for the final round of this epic ---> battle of the beans. And the WINNER is ..... :question:

Moon · April 2014

Round 3 - the tie-breaker First up to the mark is .. MAJOR TOM - by Ground Control - in the Blue corner. Milk - Sims community full-cream + a dash of Woolies Macro Organic full-cream (measured) Sugar - measured Grind - adjusted slightly finer Basket - single shot Tamp - Medium - due to finer grind Shot volume - 14ml Pour - 25 secs Micro-foam quality - 8/10 Result - 9.18/10 Splitting hairs .. I know - only we are at the business end .. and things are getting serious here. ;D Man .. that was a nice coffee .. and the downside of those piccolos .. is that they leave you hangin for more. The upside .. is that another goody is coming up soon :thumb: Tempted to go 9.2/10 .. only lacked that bit of smoothness & richness required for a 9.2 score. The smoothness probably would have been helped by better micro-foam.. but not the richness imo. Next up .. Ethiopian Yirgacheffe - Can the Yirg pull a Rabbit out of the hat for the win :question: *I'm feeling an Earth tremor .. rating 0.001 on the Richter scale - Is that you KK? :stir

Moon · April 2014

Ok .. it must be about time .. so go make yer popcorn and cuppa coffee and see yo all back here

Koffee_Kosmo · April 2014

Waiting with anticipation :thumb: As a home roaster matching commercial roasters - I have already won KK

Moon · April 2014

Fair dinkum .. I just had a Yirg .. and it's neck and neck. That Yirgacheffe was great ..yummy or what? Pour - 12ml in 25 secs .. this little beauty was throwing all it had at me .. and was going for broke. The Major Tom did the same in the last cup. These feisty little fellas know the stakes are high. I couldn't decide whether to rate it 9.18 and call it a draw .. or give it a 9.2 for the win. *I'm going to have to go another round just to be sure - to break the deadlock. Being a single origin bean and home roasted .. the Yirgacheffe is awesome in the cup. Fair call KK :thumb: Maybe I should declare a draw .. and KK be the real winner here? Doesn't seem quite right that he may end up being beaten by a short half nose .. now does it? Those blokes at Ground Control are mega serious about their coffee .. you only need to walk into the place to notice that. Hmm? Yep .. Done... congrats KK on not only cooking up a splendid bean to match the best going around .. but also in sending me a generous sample showcasing your home roasting skill and what your own personally designed roaster is capable of. Nice one KK .. and very much appreciated. Yum :coffee2:<--- That was a trip to coffee Heaven right there.

Next .. is the battle of the 3 Merlos - Private blend, Riveria & Forza.

galumay · April 2014

Are you still dosing at 18g? That seems awfully high for a lever extraction IMO, have you tried grinding finer and dropping back to 14-15g? I find the extractions much more balanced with lower doses, the whole overdosing obsession has largely been driven by trying to make a coffee bitter and strong enough to cut thru the excess of milk and sugar added to most coffees in the cafe situation, at home you can get back to much sweeter and balanced extractions - especially with levers. I like 15g in my Izzo Pompeii, aiming for a 30g extraction - or 50% brew ratio. In the Caravel I dose to 13.5-14g and get about 28g in the cup with a half fellini. I am not surprised at your reaction to KK's roasts, as the proud owner of a KKTO I know how impressed everyone is with the roasts, I sell quite a few kilos a week now, which definitely helps fund the obsession. I have even had a couple of cafes ask me to roast for them, but I dont want to scale my operation up to that extent. Eagerly awaiting the new V2 KK Roaster!

Moon · April 2014

on 1396433087:

Are you still dosing at 18g?

No. That was only for the double basket and the last 2 rounds have been single doses. The PV Lusso came with 3 baskets .. a small single, a larger single and a double. I've been using the larger single.. which seems about right. Just as I was getting into this contest my digital scales went on the blink .. so I have been going in blind as far as the dose goes. It's a bugger .. as I end up throwing away the excess grinds .. which is a tad sad when the beans are that good .. only they reckon grinds start going stale after 10 mins .. so I'm way past saving them for later now. I'm checking out some new scales on eBay at the moment. Must say .. that I'm really liking how the coffees are turning out using the single basket for a piccolo. Once I had gone back to the 6oz cup .. it was very difficult to get up to the 9.2/10 rating that I was able to get not long after I got my new machine. I'm finding Piccolo lattes ideal for my taste using the shorter ristretto shots. One question - when you say 30g extraction in the cup .. are you going by weight .. as I've been measuring in ml for volume.

eggbert · April 2014

I fill up the basket with beans to a level my eye has worked out is about right then dump them in the grinder. I've a similar looking machine and Max out at about 13-14g.

Moon · April 2014

I guess I'll find out the weight of the beans once getting some new scales. I'm kind of used to that routine now .. and it has worked fine. The 4oz glass cup I use for weighing the beans is the same as what I'm using for the piccolo lattes. No need for a handle as I don't like it hot enough to burn my fingers. I picked them up at the Reject Shop. I'll give putting the beans in a basket a shot though .. should have one around that's about right? Cheers

Moon · April 2014

Here's a question for you blokes Is there such a thing as a coffee appreciation course around Melbourne that teaches coffee lovers about identifying layers of flavours, acidity, being able to identify regions that beans are grown .. fruit flavours, chocolate notes, and whether it is Belgian or Cadbury .. lol .. similar to wines .. or is this left up to us to figure out? I have pretty basic taste buds .. and wouldn't mind giving them a bit of an education to take my coffee appreciation to another level or two. I'd imagine that even if there was .. the Baristas teaching this .. would probably be an espresso drinker .. as like a good Scotch Whisky .. they'd most likely think that adding water .. cola .. or in our case .. milk, would be blasphemy.. or perhaps they'd view us latte drinkers as candidates for redemption and it being their mission to convert us to espresso drinkers. Like with wine .. after the first few .. you lose your ability to distinguish flavour .. although in our case we wouldn't have to contend with getting a bit tipsy. Just wondering?

galumay · April 2014

on 1396438614:

One question - when you say 30g extraction in the cup .. are you going by weight .. as I've been measuring in ml for volume.

Yes, its better to go by weight because the volume is affected by the proportion of crema, its also easy to be precise - simply tare the cup on a small balance as you pour the shot.

Moon · April 2014

on 1396475829:

Yes, its better to go by weight because the volume is affected by the proportion of crema, its also easy to be precise - simply tare the cup on a small balance as you pour the shot.

Yeah . now you mention it .. with all the crema .. it is guesswork as to what level it settles to. I've been pouring the shot into one of those small V shaped plastic measuring cups - then pouring some milk into it to retrieve the crema that sticks the sides. Shame to leave it behind.

Coming up ----> The Merlo shootout. Should be tasty that one. :thumb:

Moon · April 2014

The Merlo smackdown begins.. The Candidates 1. Private Blend 2. Riveria 3. Forza First cab off the rank - piccolo latte *Merlo - Private blend Pour - 18ml in 20 secs This bean blend certainly looked the part with all its colour .. very nice, only couldn't quite back up all the sizzle with enough steak. Lacking the WOW factor to score a 9.2 Rating - 9.08/10 *Just ordered my new digital pocket scales. Does this baby look yummy or what? 8) Microfoam is a little thicker than usual .. only it means a more concentrated tasty brew .. no complaints there.

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