When Cafe's shouldn't boast...

mattyj

I had a day off today. I love my mondays off. But today, I come home for my day-off adventures somewhat frustrated, and asking myself, 'why?'.

One of the things I love doing on my day off is visiting different cafes that I've heard good things about. Sometimes I've been there before, and know what to expect, other times it's a whole new experience. Today I had three coffee's on my adventure:

Coffee #1: a doppio-ristretto-piccolo-latte at kafenio ... sounds wanky I know, and it did confuse the poor waitress, but Bill the barista knew what I meant (he joked: a dopio ristretto with milk). As was expected, it was pretty darn good.

Coffee #2: A ristretto at Grind, around the corner (I'm not afraid of going to cronulla beach!). I love this place because when you stand and order at the bar, Richard has a good old chat with you, and you can see everything he's doing - grinding, dosing, tamping, and you can see the extraction for yourself. The ristretto was great, topped only by Richards excellent service.

Coffee #3: I was christmas shopping with my wife at Miranda fair, we walked past a cafe upstairs from starbucks. And what do I see on the bench? A shiny brand-spankin'-new Synesso Cyncra ... one of only 2 in sydney. These are stunning machines made in the states. I'm led to believe that each group has it's own independant PID'd boiler ... this is almost the complete geek machine. So I order a ristretto. The girl at the counter says, 'that's a pretty small drink, do you want a double, you get more that way.' ... no I want a ristretto. 'ah, so you're just after a quick buzz.' ... no, I like the taste of ristretto's. I've already had a few coffee's today, a single will be fine thanks.

The guy starts to make my drink ... locks the portafilter in, re-offers me a double (I think he thought I was being ripped off) ... he's about to start the shot, but he can't find an espresso cup. So he walks off to find a cup. While he's gone, I start reading the little signs they've stuck all over the machine:

'CHECK THIS OUT!' little write up about the machine, one of only two in sydney blah blah blah ... 'so now Miranda's best coffee is even better'.

The guy comes back with a cup, pulls my shot. We chat ever-so briefly about the machine (he complained that it's a manual machine - there's no 'one cup' 'two cup' buttons to press, so you have to watch the shots ... in a really busy cafe, I understand this ... but then campos do something like a couple of hundred kilo's of coffee a week, and they go manual!?!?!), and coyly hands me the cup.

He either realises that I take coffee just a little too seriously and he's not sure if what he's made is up to my standard, or he still thinks I'm being ripped off for such a small amount of liquid. Probably more the latter, judging by the look on his face.

The shot was drinkable, but nothing all that remarkable. Nothing as good as Kafenio or grind ... but come on. If you're going to drop that much (read: obscene amount) money on a synesso cyncra, and if you're going to boast about how good your coffee is, then it better be damn good. This coffee was not.

I'm growing really tired of cafe's that advertise that thier coffee is the 'best in ...' when all they serve is stale, ashy tasting swill. I think about places like grind (who use a wega), who make a far better drink than this place, with a cheaper machine that doesn't perform nearly as well. But grind doesn't boast like that. What about campos - they use La Marzocco Linea's ... great machines, but not the best there is out there, and not a word of boasting in sight. And most people would rate campos as one of the top three cafes in sydney.

The bottom line is, at the cafe end of the whole coffee industry, you can have the best equipment in the world, but if you don't educate and train your barista's well, it won't make one iota of difference in the cup. A good barista can pull amazing espresso out of an average machine.

To all the cafe owners out there: if you must boast, at least give your barista's the best training you can find.

One-a-day

Good point Mattyj, If that was me after 2 great shots I would have spat the liquid in his face ,asked him if he wanted a double then gouged his eyes out with the cup.

Luc

Hi matty,, You say that the La Marzocco is a good machine but not the best out there. I am in the planning stages of opening up my own cafe, and would love to know what other machines are worth looking at? Also where do you read about certain machines and if there any good or not? Wish there were more feedback like yours on this forum, more about machines(What type?)/cafes(Where?) and coffees(What brand?) etc. Thanks

One-a-day

Hi You could try coffeegeek.com and I have found amazon has a lot of user reviews on loads of machines.

admin

wouldn't it be a good idea to put a post to that effect on the Trade page? -A

FreshCoffee2

With respect, and speaking from a purely business perspective on the choice of equipment, I honestly think that some seem to be barking up the wrong tree! The idea is that even "the best" (and the definition of "the best" is subject to infinitie inconclusive irrelevant argument) machine and coffee are no good without understanding, knwledgeable, experienced, INTERESTED, professional, operators. Due to the above and some other more important businenss issues such as availability of good backup service, reviews on commercial machnes are simply tiresome and irrelevant. Anyone that has the time to write a review on a commercial machine has too much time on their hands OR is not in the position to know because they are not in an industry where they have the requisite knowledge. In addition, many that write reviews on their own machine have knowledge of only, that machine, so the reviews always need to be taken with a grain of salt. For every person that states their favourite "technically advanced" 2 boiler machine is the best, there is someone else that can write the opposite, or that their favourite conventional machine is the best. Who is right? Suggest that in isolated areas (and that means anywhere in Oz outside of a metro area) it is pointless having machines that are overengineered or that have

nzroaster

I agree with F.C., First work out what you want from a machine and then find the machine that best suits. Sometimes the best machine isnt the best machine for your circumstance. Ask yourself the following questions: How much volume do you expect to do? Will you have signifiant downtimes? How many machine operators "barista" will you have? What is their level of enthusiasim? How much are you willing to pay? Ultimately it comes down to your budget. The real decision is do you want a single or twin boiler machine. Then pick the machine that offers you the best service and is within your budget. You need to look at whether you will be pushing the limits of the machine, or will all your barista be making the most of the equipment. Some machines are able to produce better results when treated right, but are less forgiving to 'butchers'. To highlight a few key points about single Vs double boiler machines. Single boiler machines use heat exchangers to heat the brew water and the boiler provides steam and boiling water. The pros: you get great quality water for brewing, the cons: some argue brew temp stability. With a double boiler you have 1 boiler for the steam, and 1 for the brew water. The pros of this is excellent brew temp stability. The cons: you expose your brew water to an element and in low volume senarios or down times you get deoxygenated/stale brew water. However, as you move up in quality of machines, these cons become less apparent. Personally, I'm a huge fan of La Cimbali's, but each to their own.

Remus

great post matty. my pet hate is burnt milk. this disgusting habit some places have gives you watery runny milk that you need to wait 30 mins to drink and by that time you get a layer of custardised skin ovet the top of the coffee. this is NOT uncommon unfortunately. i never buy anything from an independant coffee shop in miranda. not worth the risk. i prefer to go to GJ in miranda. at least you know what to expect. like macca's it aint great but when you order something you generally get the same thing every time round. if i order a strong flat white, i know exactly what i'm getting and i'm more comfortable with that than the hit and miss i get at other places. in fact, i don;t think i've ever had a BAD coffee from GJ's, but i have had many BAD, undrinkable coffee's from "real" coffee shops with supposed "real" baristas.

FreshCoffee2

Remus, not wishing to get too carried away here but...the problem you refer to is influenced by 2 basic factors. a) with bad management of the coffee making system & requisite staff by business owners and managers and b) with those that aspire to self imposed titles. I prefer the entirely professional and non political specific term "espresso machine operator" (or EMO). In this country, the other term is nothing more than a coffee political statement. regardz, FC.

mattyj

wow ... great posts! I have absolutely no commercial experience, I've used a couple of La Marzocco's a few times, and that's it. (Edit: The only way that I know a few small details about different machines, is from chatting to barista friends and cafe owners, and what I've read at various websites. If you head over to home-barista.com, there's a guy there called Chris Tacy (his user name is 'malachi'). He's used and tested lots of machines in his time, and seems to know a lot of the quirks. He has an amazing set of taste buds too.) I guess when I think about what makes a good machine for the home/office/cafe is one that makes itself inconspicuous, ie: you don't have to compensate too much for the machines shortcomings. And example that comes to mind with a smaller hx machine (my expobar) is that when it sits idle for even 5 minutes, the water overheats, and if you just go and brew a shot, you'll burn the coffee. So, to compensate, you have to either toss out the first shot after sitting idle, or pull cooling flushes to get the brew water down to temp. Another example with La Marzocco Linea's (the semi-auto ones, IIRC) is that the brew water flows through a gicleur (or something like that) before going to the puck, and when the machine sits idle for a bit, the gicleur cools down - so before brewing a shot, you need to flush some water out of the group, to preheat the gicleur, or modify the grouphead to compensate, otherwise the start of the shot is too cool ... getting geeky there! I guess then that the best machine, for whatever application doesn't really exist. Yet. That's where my rant begins. More important than a good machine is a barista who will learn the quirks of the machine, and learn how to effectively deal with it.

Reschsmooth

I agree with F.C., First work out what you want from a machine and then find the machine that best suits. Sometimes the best machine isnt the best machine for your circumstance. Ask yourself the following questions: How much volume do you expect to do? Will you have signifiant downtimes? How many machine operators "barista" will you have? What is their level of enthusiasim? How much are you willing to pay? Ultimately it comes down to your budget. The real decision is do you want a single or twin boiler machine. Then pick the machine that offers you the best service and is within your budget. You need to look at whether you will be pushing the limits of the machine, or will all your barista be making the most of the equipment. Some machines are able to produce better results when treated right, but are less forgiving to 'butchers'. To highlight a few key points about single Vs double boiler machines. Single boiler machines use heat exchangers to heat the brew water and the boiler provides steam and boiling water. The pros: you get great quality water for brewing, the cons: some argue brew temp stability. With a double boiler you have 1 boiler for the steam, and 1 for the brew water. The pros of this is excellent brew temp stability. The cons: you expose your brew water to an element and in low volume senarios or down times you get deoxygenated/stale brew water. However, as you move up in quality of machines, these cons become less apparent. Personally, I'm a huge fan of La Cimbali's, but each to their own.

Why don't you just ask for a free machine from a large coffee roaster?  ;D 8) ;D

mattyj

and while you're at it, see if you can get some umbrella's. And wind breaks.  

Luc

So machines worth looking at... La Marzocco Synesso Cyncra La Cimbali I'll post a question in the trade section, regarding machines, so please take alot. I am aware that the machine is only one component of the whole-kitten-kaboodle, I am not in the 'cafescene' and do not have at my desposal first hand info other than this site. Nice work NZRoaster concise and informative. Thanks

Remus

i don't think any of those machines will fit in a backpack while your picking beans in nicaragua.

avitephen

great post matty. my pet hate is burnt milk. this disgusting habit some places have gives you watery runny milk that you need to wait 30 mins to drink and by that time you get a layer of custardised skin ovet the top of the coffee. this is NOT uncommon unfortunately. i never buy anything from an independant coffee shop in miranda. not worth the risk. i prefer to go to GJ in miranda. at least you know what to expect. like macca's it aint great but when you order something you generally get the same thing every time round. if i order a strong flat white, i know exactly what i'm getting and i'm more comfortable with that than the hit and miss i get at other places. in fact, i don

tommy

and while you're at it, see if you can get some umbrella's. And wind breaks.  

dont forget the cups, saucers, sugars and aprons :D

Summercrema

yeh, been to this cafe (Piccol...) in Marinda Westfield 2 days ago, machine is nice I think the staff aren't much of a coffee lover, they just have to taste it then they will know their coffee is watery with little flavour.

askthecoffeeguy

personally I bellieve that it is very hard if not impossible to rate a place based upon a single visit (although, admittedly, why would you go back if the coffee wasn't great to start off with?) many factors can contribute to coffee consistency, and even operators at the top of their game will prob be the first to tell you that they don't get it right all the time still, too little time and effort appears to go into staff training and quality control, and the end result id that there are only a handful of operators in each state who manage to consistently pull the so-called 'god shots' all the more reason to purchase a home machine, and to perfect your own technique, i say!