Ristretto ?

liquid_beans

Would like to know how the more experienced prefere to make their Ristretto's:

Finer grind with a normal tamp & 15ml
OR
Normal grind & harder tamp?

psaigh

Same grind (as for espresso), updosed with a 2mm raised concurved mound (my usual dose/tamp method is collapse and dose with 2 bench taps at 1/2 ful, 3/4 and full). I usually aim for around 15-20mls in 22-25 secs (but it obviousely depends on the bean, i'm usually taste driven)

askthecoffeeguy

I'll updose marginally on my espresso and cut the pour short at 10 to 12mls - not sure what this adds up to in extraction times, I like to look at the pour and see if its doing well some places might change the grind but if your machine is set up for espresso extraction you shouldn't really need to - comes down to what beans you use, combination of griner and machine, and operator experience at my work we updose and as a general rule the finer the grind the less tamp pressure you need, so we don't tend to alter out technique too much, just keep an eye on the pour, that's all cheers, pat

liquid_beans

Thanks Gents, Just to clarify: 15ml in a single basket & approx 30ml from the double????????

psaigh

I usually aim for around 15-20mls in 22-25 secs

Double basket, 15-20mls per spoud (ie/ total liquid 30-40mls).  I don't usually use a single basket but if i did it would be to yeild total voume of around 15mls

liquid_beans

OK, Thanks.

askthecoffeeguy

actually ristretto means 'restricted' pour and this is traditionally produced from a single basket by fining the grind and increasing the dose, and by 'restraining' the pour i tell my staff that any more than a lick (10 to 12ml) from a single basket is too much and a double basket would only be used for a double ristretto (same principle as above but stop the pour at around 20 to 25mls - and longer extraction for either of the above shots dramatically changes the flavour profile of the coffee, introducing greater acidity and increased caffeine content, both of which are ok, but not in a ristretto try making 3 ristrettos for yourself all from single baskets: one with a 10 ml pour, one with a 15 ml pour, and one with a 20 ml pour, and see how the flavour changes dramatically what you are looking for in each instance is that lovely tiger-striped crema in each coffee, which should pretty much start pouring from the word go by cutting the pour short you in theory at least maintain the 'sweetness' but not the intensity of the coffee which is why a longer pour is used for espresso, as this introduces greater depth and body, a more fleshy flavour on the mid-palate, and a more rounded mouth feel its horses for courses really but i often use a double ristretto as a base for my lattes, as i like the sweetness and intensity of the flavour that this imparts, with the added bonus of not too much caffeine when it comes to caffeine its like smoking cigarettes: too much will kill you! ACTUALLY what I meant to say was the longer the pour, like the longer the draw, the more caffeine / nicotine you are going to get thats why there is more caffeine in an over-extracted coffee than an under-extracted one, and more nicotine at the bottom end of a cigarette than at the beginning: its a kind of cumulative result sort of thing (not that i advocate smoking) does this make anything clearer or just add to the confusion? Pat :P

liquid_beans

Clear as a turkish coffee. Thanks Pat, it does help.

Unknown

when i can, i pull a shorter shot for most milky drinks.. somewhere between a ristretto and an espresso. it's a combination of using a questionable blend, the machine not being set up properly and a noted increase in people complimenting coffee made like this and not so much from the 'espresso' button. i think, though, the espresso button extracts a little too much. alvaro, trainer for toby's estate suggested that we use the double ristretto as a base for 'strong' drinks.

Unknown

thats why there is more caffeine in an over-extracted coffee than an under-extracted one, and more nicotine at the bottom end of a cigarette than at the beginning: its a kind of cumulative result sort of thing (not that i advocate smoking)

for a little while i chopped the first inch off cigarettes with a pair of scissors to combat this. a 'restricted' cigarette, right.

sketchy

hi all for a ristretto i will usually make the grind finer then as soon as the shot starts to blonde i pull it. today i got about 10 ml from a double and it was fantastic so pulled a second then a third. LE

askthecoffeeguy

for a little while i chopped the first inch off cigarettes with a pair of scissors to combat this. a 'restricted' cigarette, right.

why not just smoke the other end first?

FreshCoffee2

For my individual taste: Nothing complicated. Same grind and tamp as any espresso (although I always overdose on machines that allow it).  I always use the deep double commercial filter, extract approximately 15 ml (who's measuring?) into each cup or glass following the "less is more"  philosophy, I drink one and tip the other (or make it into some kind of milk beverage for one or other of the girls in the office....they never complain ) Oh, did anyone mention there is only one s in ristretto? Cheerz, Attilio.

askthecoffeeguy

[glow]I've gone through and 'tweaked' the spelling of ristretto in the subject title of each of these posts - as it gets a bit hard on the eye after awhile![/glow]