Fundamentalism v's Reality (Coffeewise)

System

I have to say....
I've been making coffee intensly for a while now, and the thing that strkes me the most about the people behind the machine. Is that there is the idea that there are very strict and holy grail figuers that apply to espresso.
This simply isn't the truth.
Now, these are the rules....Good coffee, good grinder, good machine and a crap load of practice. Only through experience will you achieve espresso brilliance.
I definately have solid views on making espresso. (Extraction: A gentle guide-in this forum). But it kills me, especially with my knowledge and experience. How many times I hear the dribble of know it all coffee kids, that have learnt basic training off coffee companies or the television, or barista comps. I hear it from long time coffee makers as well.
There is only one true way to make excellent coffee, the way you do it best. And that way I assure you will get better all the time. Be open to advice, thats very important. And learn how to tamp and dose consistantly.
Remember that coffee is a joy, unless you make 30kg a week, then its a job. But even then try to enjoy it. The bean lives alot quicker than you, the least you can do is give a beautiful send off, and not put it to death with morals and codes. Leave that to the old garde.

Unknown

And I'd also like to add - How do you cook an Egg?

blanyon

I could't agree with you more, there are many pathways to espresso heaven. I did a training course last year and the trainer was very strict on the swirling of the milk. I tend to fold it over on itself but he inisited that I do it his way. Then there is the tamping strict adherence to kgs (10 apposed to 15kg) probably doesn't make a huge difference as long as it is even and consistent but some organisations strictly enforce their rules. This confuses people into thinking that there is a right and wrong way of going about things and if you don't do it their way you are ruining the coffee. Eggs should be poached for the time it takes to make toast and served with a little bernaise sauce. mmmmmm.

Unknown

to add to the milk thing. Do both: flop over (kissing, yin yang,wabble), and swirl. if you want extra amazing results. let the milk sit for 15 secs before doing anything, give a decent "doosh" on the bench to knock out bubbles, then apply flop and swirl. you'll get beautiful milk. And if your a latte art head (which I dont really care much about). this method will allow some amazing results

greenman

When I first got into espresso making at home I read as much information on the web as I could, everyone has their own methods of extracting their shots, each espresso machine has it's little quirks, being able to discuss these with fellow coffee tragics in forums lead me in the right direction and with the knowledge that I now possess can produce a pretty sweet espresso on a regular basis. The only thing I haven't mastered is latte art, I think my arthritic fingers have lost the fine touch so I'm going to have to settle for fat little Christmas trees and apples!! I have found the coffee community so helpful and they embrace newcomers and impart their knowledge upon newbies for the pure pleasure of sharing their passion for the bean with others.

admin

Hi Caspresso and Greenman, and firstly welcome to the forum... yes, have to agree with some of your comments above. Actually I think the funniest thing is when you hear someone has been to a coffee course, and you hear that they were told something like the following: 'coffee needs to be extracted 16 seconds after grinding' [or similar]. I don't know why trainers try to measure things like that - basicallly you want to get it in there asap, not wait 16 secs - pretty funny, if it wasn't so stupid!! -A  

Unknown

I think that in the end, beside ego. If you dont sell your product as the only one of relevance, then sadly people dont trust you. Sheep mentality as it were. I know thats a little "business is the devil" and "we all want to be told how to live". But it really is the truth. Here's a point. You can grind coffee and let it sit for 20-30mins, even an hour(not that I'm suggesting that its a reasonable thing to do), make a coffee and it will taste fine, servable and acceptable to most palates. The thing that we know for sure is that it wont taste anywhere near as good as freshly ground, not even close. But here I say this. If you are using nearly any of the mega name brands, you have almost no chance of making a decent coffee anyway.(There is a point). But it is these guys who are setting out the guidelines and techniques that are being seen as the most relevant. And thats big bloody business. Sorry to harp on, but as coffee people, we need to help people understand that coffee is just a drink, in that I mean its simplistic in nature. And that if you strangle the hell out of it with rules and adhearance to the perfect cup every time, like we will die if we dont follow protocol. Where will the joy af its art go? I dont let my coffee sit for 20 mins by the way, and I get my beans on the third day after roasting. ; )

Unknown

I went on a pretty bad rampage through several levels of management when our contract with a certain specialty roaster meant that we had to attend their training and listen to the trainer's statement that every single coffee on earth poured a 26 second espresso. Go figure. I scramble my eggs, and poach if I'm looking for a bit less of a breakfast feel to my food. Scrambling's out of necessity anyway, the stuff you see at most cafes is more like a shredded omelette most of the time.

Unknown

and please if anyone strongly apposes my thoughts please chime in. Cause if you can teach me something new that works I'm eager to hear it

lars

Hey caspresso - you're absolutely right about the bigger companies - people think the coffee business is romantic, but in the end [especially with the big companies] it's all about the bucks! L

askthecoffeeguy

I've been to a couple of place recently that used a Cynesso and a Mazzer Major set up both here and in NZ and the coffee was truly terrible which just goes to show that great equipment does not necessarily great coffee make! (is that a sentence?) Eggs poached under-easy sunny side up on rye please P

Unknown

Very true. Money doesn't buy ability. But it can afford good training. Its interesting though, you look at all the big chain stores, and they give excellent training (sadly the coffee tends to be left out of the equation). Why are the supposed "boutique" coffee houses not applying the same philosophy of training staff correctly?

psaigh

I'll second that!!  While I do know some fantastic cafe's that pour their soul into developming their staff, in South Australia I'm yet to really see one. Here, the only people offering on the job training for enthusiastic staff with no prior knowledge, are the franchises.  Especially frustrating when a great barista, on poor quality machinery, with average beans will produce a very good cup of coffee.  But a poorly trained barista, with the world most amazing beans and machinery will make a terrible coffee. some people just don't get it! :-/

Unknown

A lot of the boutique coffee houses here have lost their trainers or trainers have been replaced. The others are simply not doing a good job. By way of example, some roasters guilty of this: Roaster A has been at the forefront of Sydney roasting for a long time, and most people would agree that they are generally in the top 3. They hired a lot of new staff a while ago and the trainer that has come up to replace the old one is absolutely terrible. He believes that there is only one way to do things, everyone must do things his way, etc. One of his words of advice is to avoid flushing through the groups, as stale coffee oils in the group head improve the flavour of espresso. (A former trainer of Roaster A, a barista champion, actually trains a large franchise now, and is apparently very good... although the information retention by her trainees is less-than-stellar) Roaster B is considered one of the best in Sydney again, and has one of the busiest espresso bars in the city. Their national trainer, who they've chosen to represent, really, the whole operation to customers - has the same level of rigidity as the trainer from Roaster A. She is a victim of that outdated, ridiculous idea that there is only one way to do things... for example, the idea that all coffee in the world should extract for the same length of time, that incredibly underextracted coffee (gushing out, LIGHT blonde; I've had some good coffee like this, but we all know that 99% of coffee isn't going to come out nicely with that extraction) from her roaster was an example of a 'perfect' shot, that flushing the head in between shots would serve to wear down the machine and come up as a massive figure on your water bill... Roaster C has had a long reputation for being one of the few in Sydney to care about the quality of their coffee. A very big corporation recently bought a massive stake in it, and there have been some aggressive sales drives. A sales rep that was sent out was training staff... from a textbook. When quizzed about a ristretto, he pulled out the book to search for a definition. He also stated that decaffeinated coffee stores better and remains fresher longer if ground in advance. The reputation is now lost and they are seen as just another massive, shit roaster. I speak completely hypothetically of course, but I'm sure that if this stuff WAS happening I would have personal experience from working with them or having been trained by them over the course of the most recent 2 years.

Unknown

I'll just say that I personally dont flush my handles, I dry wipe my baskets and regularly flush clean the handle inside, and the bottom of the basket. the reason I dont flush the basket is because; When you start every time with a water flushed basket, without some of the left over oil from the previous pourings, there is no tension between the puck and the basket wall. and the water will more easily flow down the side of the puck. Again here, i say try my method of dry wiping. do it for a whole morning. Then wash out your baskets for the rest of the day. I think you'll see that you get a nicer pour with the dry wipe method. As a note on "stale oil". I'm not sure you understand the propeerties of oil fully. That or you are referring to another substance. Maybe its the micro grit under the basket, I'm not sure. But Oil doesn't stale in such a short amount of time, not even coffee oil. T prove my point, run an oily ristretto pour let it sit for 10/20 mins. Then taste just the bottom of it. It'll still be oily and sweet.   The one way for sure the oil will taint the espresso is if your extracting badly and you get a build up of "Burnt" oil. But thats pretty rare. Correct me if I'm wrong....

Unknown

I was talking about the heads and not the baskets. I also wipe my baskets without flushing.

Unknown

Cool : ) I re-read your post and realised that you had said group heads. But my reading mistake may have lifted a new subject to the surface. Flushing the group handles. I know a company that insists on it, very weird...