Roasting for Siphon?

Dry_bean.

I've owned a Bodum Santos siphon for about 8 years, never have enjoyed the coffee it produces, so before I advertise it one last try.
I'm told beans need to be roasted lighter for siphon, the question is how much lighter? some suggestions re bean type suited to this style of brewing would also be helpful.
One more attempt then it hasta la vista Mr Bodum.

hazchem

what origins have you got to work with? maybe we can pick something for ya ... when I roast for filter I tend to take my roast to the end of first crack and leave it at that. I haven't explored this much though so I'm clutching at straws really  :D

Dry_bean.

on 1282555400:

what origins have you got to work with? maybe we can pick something for ya ... when I roast for filter I tend to take my roast to the end of first crack and leave it at that. I haven't explored this much though so I'm clutching at straws really  :D

At the moment I have, Ethiopian Harrar                                                          Ethiopian Kuza                                                            Tanzania Rononi                                                        Ethiopian Yirgacheffe                                                Yemen Bani Ismail                                                      Indian Monsoon Malabar                                        Columbian Supremo                                                  India Mysore Nuggets                                              Guatamala Huehuetenango How do you tend to grind for filter and what ratio of coffee/water do you use?                                    

askthecoffeeguy

Nice little line up you've got there dry bean - I just put on another roast of the Huehuethanago this morning in my Koffee Kosmo Corretto and the results are nothing short of spectacular! I 'burped' (lifted the lid and introduced air) my roast three times during the roast and then rapidly cooled with an industrial fan - but silly me I forgot my wooden stirrer to cool the roast so I ended up using my hands to agitate the beans which were at 250C when I pulled the roast! But my hands are used used to the heat from making coffee for a living and what ever i did must've  worked coz I had my first double riz not too long ago and it was damn delicious! I would take my roast to cinnamon darkness or about 7 on the CS roasting scale as this caramalises the sugars without brining out more pronounced secondary roast characteristics - which I think is ideal for syphon type applications Hope this helps, ACg

Dry_bean.

on 1282638508:

Nice little line up you've got there dry bean - I just put on another roast of the Huehuethanago this morning in my Koffee Kosmo Corretto and the results are nothing short of spectacular! I 'burped' (lifted the lid and introduced air) my roast three times during the roast and then rapidly cooled with an industrial fan - but silly me I forgot my wooden stirrer to cool the roast so I ended up using my hands to agitate the beans which were at 250C when I pulled the roast! But my hands are used used to the heat from making coffee for a living and what ever i did must've  worked coz I had my first double riz not too long ago and it was damn delicious! I would take my roast to cinnamon darkness or about 7 on the CS roasting scale as this caramalises the sugars without brining out more pronounced secondary roast characteristics - which I think is ideal for syphon type applications Hope this helps, ACg

Thanks ACg, Haven't roasted any of the Huehue yet, have heard good reports. So, roast a little lighter for siphon seems to be the go.

hazchem

on 1282638508:

I would take my roast to cinnamon darkness or about 7 on the CS roasting scale as this caramalises the sugars without brining out more pronounced secondary roast characteristics - which I think is ideal for syphon type applications Hope this helps, ACg

yep, this is where I tend to aim when roasting for brewed coffee as well. Nice list, lots of very familiar origins there  I'd be giving the Harrar, Yirg, Huehue & Colombian Supremo a go if it were me, and maybe the Kuza as well. That said I haven't roasted much of the Kuza but have had good results through syphon with the Harrar and filter with the Yirg. Getting quite excited about being able to roast again myself after I picked up some spare parts for my Gene yesterday!

askthecoffeeguy

Why? What happened with the Gene Cafe - they're a fairly indestructible unit unless you drop one!

Lacehim

Hello, Just me again.  Just wondering if anyone can give me the nod as to what would be good to roast up for my syphon?  I've roasted to SC for espresso so far, but I'm hoping to use my syphon a bit more while I rebuild the groups of my PVL and put some insulation around the boiler. In my not very expensive stash is... Malawi AA Pamwamba Mocha Java Decaf Brazil Pulped Natural Java Ijen Sundried PNG Wahgi AA PNG Elephant Bean Ethiopia Gambella Sundried Laos Dong Hua Sao Mexico Yeni Navan Typica Thanks for any help.

RichardM

on 1304231381:

Hello, Just me again.  Just wondering if anyone can give me the nod as to what would be good to roast up for my syphon?  I've roasted to SC for espresso so far, but I'm hoping to use my syphon a bit more while I rebuild the groups of my PVL and put some insulation around the boiler. In my not very expensive stash is... Malawi AA Pamwamba Mocha Java Decaf Brazil Pulped Natural Java Ijen Sundried PNG Wahgi AA PNG Elephant Bean Ethiopia Gambella Sundried Laos Dong Hua Sao Mexico Yeni Navan Typica Thanks for any help.

I haven't had any of those in a syphon, HOWEVER the one out of that list that I'd really like to try from a syphon is the Laos Dong Hua Sao, pulled just on 2nd crack or just before, just because it's such an interesting bean.

shape_shifter

I was told to roast to 1C only and even then it can be too long sometimes. I roasted the Kenya Kagongo Peaberry to 1C when I first got it and it was gorgeous, I described it to people as 'tea for coffee lovers'.  We recently did this bean again to 2C and while it great as a cappuccino I wouldn't try it as a syphon, there is no fruit flavours left to come out in the syphon. Unfortunately I lost all of my emails a little while ago, included was the details from the Hario importers that I bought my syphon from.  I'll have to get back in touch with them, I know he was going to bring out a guide of sorts for people.

RichardM

on 1304232884:

I was told to roast to 1C only and even then it can be too long sometimes. I roasted the Kenya Kagongo Peaberry to 1C when I first got it and it was gorgeous, I described it to people as 'tea for coffee lovers'.  We recently did this bean again to 2C and while it great as a cappuccino I wouldn't try it as a syphon, there is no fruit flavours left to come out in the syphon. Unfortunately I lost all of my emails a little while ago, included was the details from the Hario importers that I bought my syphon from.  I'll have to get back in touch with them, I know he was going to bring out a guide of sorts for people.

The reason I'm suggesting just on 2nd crack for the Laos is specifically because it still has a lot of uniqueness left at that even in an espresso. It kind of has a funky smell before that...

Lacehim

I've had the Laos Dong Hua Sao a few times.  It's been pretty good so far and seems to have enough punch for latte's etc.  Only roasted to 2C so far. I'm going to have to look at the KKTO first.  I would like to roast a small batch of a few beans to try to 1C.  Only talking 100gms or so of each. If I can get anywhere near your results shape_shifter I might even beable to get my tea loving wife to try some!

on 1304232884:

Unfortunately I lost all of my emails a little while ago, included was the details from the Hario importers that I bought my syphon from.  I'll have to get back in touch with them, I know he was going to bring out a guide of sorts for people.

I would be very intrested in this.  Mine is a Bellina TCA-3 from Jack at Sorrentina (where I got my Lusso).

Koffee_Kosmo

I find that if one does not roast to at least rolling first crack you get a grassy flavour A second observation is that it takes many days to degas and settle Of course as its very subjective with individual preferences It could just be me & I say enjoy it the way you like it KK

shape_shifter

Lacehim, I've emailed him (not sure if I can say who it is) to see how he is going with it all.  I'll let you know what he replies with. KK, I haven't done many for the syphon as I don't think that many of the beans I have would suit, for me I feel they need to be beans like the peaberry rather than say the ghimbi, anyway what I was getting at is that I haven't got the experience to know, just going by what I was told and from what I had limited experience with already :D Oh just want to add, it wasn't the Hario importer that told me the 'not even 1C'.  Just someone else that did a lot of syphon for themselves

Lacehim

Well today I roasted 100gm green of Mexico Yeni Navan Typica and 100gm green of PNG Wahgi AA.  Not sure what it they will taste like,  but nothing ventured nothing gained eh.  I might discover something new that I like... I roasted to RFC, so a much lighter roast that I've used before.  I'll post up my thoughts when I try em. Any ideas how long these beans will need to degas?  Is it the same as beans roasted to SC?

Lacehim

Tried the Mexico roast at the weekend.  Turned out okay, but I have to admit that no perticular flavours jumped out at me.  I am still a newbie at all this.  I did taste nicer with the lighter roast though.  Mind you I'm probably not using the best beans to maximise the flavour.  I mostly bought my beans for espresso and milk based drinks. So, would anyone like to help me by picking out a few beans from beangreen.com that would shine in a syphon???  Please please pretty please.

beanflying

With Syphon depending on the bean up to the very first snaps of SC are OK but for others I like about 1/2 way or a couple of minutes shy of SC. As KK mentions FC is in a lot of cases grassy. Along the way I have had a couple of extreme examples a Kenyan bean roasted by Toshi when he was still at St Ali barely beyond FC, 3 days post roast 22g/120ml very course grind and about 50-55 seconds brew time. Memoralble and very tasty. Another of my favourites for home roast is the MTE478 taken barely to SC to -30 seconds but for this 7-8g/100ml and a 70 second brew works after 5 days this yeilds a big bodied full flavoured 'coffee' that even dry bean might like  ;D If Chris Blair (Redzone is another life) gets here I know he has been doing a fair bit of roasting recently just beyond FC for Syphon. General rules for me start having the first go at the beans after 4 or 5 days (quite often then leave them another couple depending on roast) for light roasts. Generally run 10-12 minutes to FC then try and get at least 3 or 4 to the EOR. The key really is write it down then suck it and see. Highly recommend you look up Ministry Grounds to broaden your bean choices as you can.

Lacehim

on 1305112457:

With Syphon depending on the bean up to the very first snaps of SC are OK but for others I like about 1/2 way or a couple of minutes shy of SC. As KK mentions FC is in a lot of cases grassy. Along the way I have had a couple of extreme examples a Kenyan bean roasted by Toshi when he was still at St Ali barely beyond FC, 3 days post roast 22g/120ml very course grind and about 50-55 seconds brew time. Memoralble and very tasty. Another of my favourites for home roast is the MTE478 taken barely to SC to -30 seconds but for this 7-8g/100ml and a 70 second brew works after 5 days this yeilds a big bodied full flavoured 'coffee' that even dry bean might like  ;D If Chris Blair (Redzone is another life) gets here I know he has been doing a fair bit of roasting recently just beyond FC for Syphon. General rules for me start having the first go at the beans after 4 or 5 days (quite often then leave them another couple depending on roast) for light roasts. Generally run 10-12 minutes to FC then try and get at least 3 or 4 to the EOR. The key really is write it down then suck it and see. Highly recommend you look up Ministry Grounds to broaden your bean choices as you can.

Wow.  :o :o :o It's like learning how to make espresso again!!!!  ;D  So much to learn...  and I can't wait to learn more. I've basically learnt by techique from watching youtube vids and reading various how to instructions online.  They all seemed to differ, however if anyone here wants to post up there how to for making syphon coffee I would really appricate it.

shape_shifter

Lacehim, just from what I've learnt so far, anything that talks about lots of fruit flavours, being sweet, nothing that talks about milk in any way or chocolate.  These are my criteria for syphon beans though Here is a video I got for making coffee in a syphon I've been told to try the Tanzania - A very versatile coffee. Lovely notes of red fruit, including raspberries, rhubarb and red apples. Juicy and sweet with coating mouthfeel and good body.

hiphipharar

on 1305072815:

So, would anyone like to help me by picking out a few beans from beangreen.com that would shine in a syphon???  Please please pretty please.

As per BF's comment, I would go to a roaster who can roast for manual brewing methods and try some of their roasts. It doesn't have to be SO. WotB gave me a taste of one of his blends made with a pourover and it was delightful. But since you asked for recommendation, here's a list of possibilities. I don't have any beans from Beangreen yet but this is based on coffee I have purchased elsewhere: Ethiopian Yirgacheffe Grade 2 Washed -(this is at the top of my list, not just literally.) Ethiopian Sidamo Kenya Peaberry (based on what I've heard about it) Brazil Daterra Estate - Sweet Collection Costa Rica - Herbazu Estate Honduras El Filo Cup of Excellence (Love coffee from Honduras...) Guatemala - Camona Cup of Excellence (...and from Guatemala too) PNG Waghi Peaberry - You have to try a PNG in a syphon - it doesn't have to be this one. This is a brief list but anything CoE deserves a go in a syphon.  The biggest caveat is not just the bean but how you roast them. I have a KKTO as well and my method is to pre-heat to about 125 drop temp, add the beans and let it rebuild to about 100 degrees at a ramp of less than 10 deg per min - it should reach 100 in no less than 5 mins and then full blast until start of FC, knock the temp control back to 200 and burp then when the reading gets to about 2 degrees, turn up the temp again and maintain at no more than 5 degrees until the start of 2C. But this is for my KKTo roaster. Yours probably has different thermodynamics to mine. But I would recommend buying a Coffee-tech Baby roaster and trying a good roast from one of them in a syphon. This has produced the best flavour results for me and has the benefit of a small batch size so you can try a greater variety (and less wastage if you botch the roast)

Lacehim

on 1305154513:

This is a brief list but anything CoE deserves a go in a syphon.  The biggest caveat is not just the bean but how you roast them. I have a KKTO as well and my method is to pre-heat to about 125 drop temp, add the beans and let it rebuild to about 100 degrees at a ramp of less than 10 deg per min - it should reach 100 in no less than 5 mins and then full blast until start of FC, knock the temp control back to 200 and burp then when the reading gets to about 2 degrees, turn up the temp again and maintain at no more than 5 degrees until the start of 2C. But this is for my KKTo roaster. Yours probably has different thermodynamics to mine.

I just sold my datalogger, mainly because it never worked well for me.  I went back to roasting old skool and use the TO timer to time the roast!   I've also roasted 100gms in my KKTO which worked well with a few basic mods.

hiphipharar

on 1305156238:

I just sold my datalogger, mainly because it never worked well for me.  I went back to roasting old skool and use the TO timer to time the roast!   I've also roasted 100gms in my KKTO which worked well with a few basic mods.

As my hearing is pretty poor, I rely mostly on my datalogger. It shows about 25+ degrees below actual temp so 2C appears at around 190 degrees. I lift the lid at this stage and usually I will hear the first snips of 2C. I get great roasts from the KKT0 and have roasted as little as 300 grams without any mods. My point was that I have not had as good a roast for syphon use as I have had from the Baby, and I have more control over the roast profile for the Baby (

beanflying

To get back to your inner roaster quite seriously get out the Spoon, Bowl and heatgun and use just a stopwatch or drop the logger in if you have one. For smaller batches i still much prefer this to using the Hottop as it gives me complete and nearly instant control over the roast. You will also learn heaps about colour and roast development due to the visible and audible nature of the process. Some of the best roasts I have come from this and not the Hottop, in part because of what beans I use for this too  Roast, Brew, Drink then retweak the process.

askthecoffeeguy

on 1282270984:

I've owned a Bodum Santos siphon for about 8 years, never have enjoyed the coffee it produces, so before I advertise it one last try. I'm told beans need to be roasted lighter for siphon, the question is how much lighter? some suggestions re bean type suited to this style of brewing would also be helpful. One more attempt then it hasta la vista Mr Bodum.

I'm happy to take it off your hand I accidentally 'blew up' my hario syphon at work the other day (ok so I didn't actually blow it up I used it and then cleaned it straight away and was talking like an Italian madly gesticulating with my hands when I accidentally tapped the cone against the sink and viola bob's your aunty!) FYI when I roast for syphon or filter I take my roast to the first signs of second crack and then pull it straight away - so Its quite a bit lighter than espresso (in my book anyway) and the flavour profile reflects this with oily, sweet, and stewed fruit flavours at the forefront )for syphon anyway)