Breville BES900 Experimentation

Muscles

Hope you all don't mind me starting a new thread but I feel this warrants it.

I want to know from other BDB user's that have played with brew temp and/or pre-infusion.
Non BDB owners, please feel free to chime in too with any thoughts/recommendations.

So far I have tried 92, 93, 94 Deg C on two different S/O's and so far I am preferring 92 especially on the Rwandan beans. Is it worth venturing beyond these realms ie 91/90 or 95/96 or can it only go sour from here??

As for pre-infusion I have played around quite a bit more with this setting and found that the biggest differences in the cup can be found when overdosing the baskets on the BDB. If dosing standard amounts or even under-dosing I have found the differences so to be unnoticeable in the cup and only minutely visible in the pour itself. Any thoughts here? Are there any recommended times/pressures that I should read up on?? What pre-infusion times or pressure percentages do other machines use?

mycuppa

It's an interesting topic Marc - especially temps. Whilst my experiences are not directly with the BDB, I can relate to what I have noticed on other brand equipment that offers direct PID controls of the brew temp. I may have mentioned this in another post, but I'm tired and can't be bothered searching.......sorry. A few years ago, everyone was heading up in temps - the movement was led by the specialty cafes using LM's and dialing up a higher temp (sitting around 93 and 94). It was thought at that time the higher temps were addressing sourness and delivering sweeter shots. Most people had assumed their machines were running around 92......in fact very few actually took the effort to properly measure using approved methods. Just like fashion, there was very little science behind it.......just a bit too much hype and mindset. Some of this theory about higher temps may have been true, but I have a strong belief it comes down to more about the profile used to roast the bean and matching that to an extraction temp. It could have been a style of roasting at that particular time which worked better with the beans they were using at higher temps. Who really knows...... Of course, we also know there are some beans that prefer lower temps. I've found Colombians, Brazils and many South Americans enjoy a lower temp. I've run tests at 89 on my units and achieved some very tasty shots - straight or with milk. Having experimented myself a lot over the last 3 years, I've settled on 93 as the best setting for my machines. Of course, when I'm working it the temp drops to 92, so perhaps somewhere between 92 and 93 is perhaps the best spot. I have tried to establish a link between the origin, acid, density of a bean and it's subsequent preferred temp, As an example, I had long thought low acid coffees work better at low temps (some people would argue that it's sour) and the acids work better at high temps, but then as always, the logic busting shot would rear it's ugly head and blow my theory to bits. Ultimately, the only thing I learned was to stop playing with temps............took me a long time to finally accept that lesson. I'm a big believer in pre-infusion - whether it's mechanical or electronic. We play around with this setting on some of the more advanced super-autos with good results and when you consider what happens with levers........it's perhaps one of those features that may actually be truly beneficial. Marc - enjoy the experimentation, if anything it will broaden your understanding.

Brett H

That's interesting stuff Marc and Jeff.  I have of late wondered about getting a DB machine to play with shot temp butmthe more I read the more I am starting to think that my good quality HX setup is more than adequate.  My coffee from my setup tastes great to me And the more I go to great cafes with amazing gear the more I realize how good I have it.  I have recently dropped my boiler pressure largely because I needed t after insulating the boiler.  I didn't think this would have any impact on the pressure but perhaps I bumped something.  After dropping to 0.9 from 1.1 my shots are sweeter???  Perhaps I just need a lever but then how would I know what pressure profile I was using to be able to recreate it?  I've also wondered if that e61 probe eric's something or other is effective at measuring extraction temperature accurately.  The long and the short of it is that the more I read, the more I am dissuaded from upgrading to plat with temperature variations.  Jeff, you may have confirmed my suspicions in your excellent post.

Koffee_Kosmo

After dropping to 0.9 from 1.1 my shots are sweeter???  Perhaps I just need a lever but then how would I know what pressure profile I was using to be able to recreate it?  I've also wondered if that e61 probe eric's something or other is effective at measuring extraction temperature accurately. 

Like Bret I also run my boiler pressure under the recommended setting It's a very large boiler with lots of available steam I have set it at 0.95 - 1 bar boiler pressure with a 9 bar pump pressure Works for me KK

coffeehorse

My feeling is that 95/96 is into the territory where you can 'scorch' some of the more delicate flavours and generally tends to lose a bit in the cup, but works well to control some very light roasts and sometimes works well for darker-roasted blends. I think if you're thinking of going this high, look at your grind (fine) and your dose (low) as a starting point and see what you think - it's a more french/italian style of espresso drinking but one that has it's merits. I wonder if there's less caffeine in the cup at lower temperature extractions..need to check my coffee chemistry Illy lecture papers. CH

Muscles

Thanks all, as AM says 2+2=5... well sometimes it's 6 for me so I'll keep playing around.

Brett H

on 1320458865:

So any update as to what you were looking at ? Can't wait until x-mas, may yet get a new toy to pull apart, then again; maybe not.

I can feel a social coming on.... 

Muscles

on 1320458865:

So any update as to what you were looking at ? Can't wait until x-mas, may yet get a new toy to pull apart, then again; maybe not.

I have settled on 94 degrees for most coffees but will switch to 93 for my Colombian Supremo as it seems to bring a bit more sweetness to the cup. My wife prefers her Colombian SW Decaf when I use a temp of 92. I am curious to know what the "real" temp coming out is but it doesn't really matter as I am using these numbers purely as a guide for my own reference. As for preinfusion, I have found that a longer/weaker PI works for me on very fresh beans and vice versa. In saying that, none of my beans last more than two weeks post roast. So if beans are 3 days post roast the PI will be set to 7 sec + 50% and toward the end of the 500g bag the PI is 4 sec + 70%. Without adjusting the PI over the course of a week or two I was noticing the shots running and blonding faster. Yeah, I still adjust my grind over time but using the PI those adjustments are much more minute. It is so quick and easy to make these adjustments and I can have a couple of bags of varying roast dates on the bench and adjust on the fly - great when blending on the fly

shape_shifter

I've still left mine at 93 degrees. I have brought the pre-infusion up to 5 and the power up to 60, this seems to have found the sweet spot for Jeffs Berry blend, it's fantastic.