Gloria Jeans and La Marzocco

Ronin

Now I've seen it all.
In Townsville for a few days and was at Castle Town shopping complex.
I saw shinny La Marzocco GB5 and Mazzer Robur, got excited about a coffee and looked up to see Gloria Jeans

WTF

Talk about highlighting the smokey ashy bitter taste of the blend/roast.
Oh and at 5pm, filling the hopper up ready for the next day's trade.
Needless to say I didn't have a coffee there.

BTW Coffee Dominion in the Flinders Mall was ok.
Synesso Hydra and Mazzer Roburs
Although they aren't using the machines to full potential, and my flat white was disappointing on sat.
Barista poured shot, took coffee's to other customers that were waiting, then came back, steamed milk, poured & served me.................... :'(

Bottom Line

on 1327299650:

I saw shinny La Marzocco GB5 and Mazzer Robur, got excited about a coffee and looked up to see Gloria Jeans WTF

Made me laugh!!! I remember thinking exactly the same thing when I was on holidays in Vietnam a few years ago. Spotted a La Marzocco from well over 50 meters  away in Saigon and almost ran over to it. Stopped mid track when I saw the Gloria Jeans sign. Did try one out in the later part of the holiday in Hanoi. They also had a three group La Marzocco. I thought, it can't be that bad. If a company is going to spend over 15 times the local average yearly wage on a machine let only the grinder...... Bitter and ashy.

Brett H

on 1327312973:

Made me laugh!!! I remember thinking exactly the same thing when I was on holidays in Vietnam a few years ago. Spotted a La Marzocco from well over 50 meters  away in Saigon and almost ran over to it. Stopped mid track when I saw the Gloria Jeans sign. Did try one out in the later part of the holiday in Hanoi. They also had a three group La Marzocco. I thought, it can't be that bad. If a company is going to spend over 15 times the local average yearly wage on a machine let only the grinder...... Bitter and ashy.

I can't believe how hit and miss they can be at Dominion when they are getting hammered!  Such a great set up and on occasion coffee to rival anywhere!  Oh well, same old story I suppose.  I too made the mistake in Vietnam of having a GJ's right at then end of our journey when we hit Saigon.  Worst coffee I had over there by far.  So awful and such a shame... and shame on me when the local coffee on offer is so different to ours and o accessible. 

mycuppa

It just goes to prove a very important point. Equipment is not the reliable barometer of cup quality many people expect. Clothes don't maketh the man. Take Melbourne for instance (controversial and I know people will be horribly offended, but it needs to be said........) there continues to be a mindset amongst the *mostly pretentious* set of cafe owners/barista that a Synesso is the ONLY machine to have as nothing else pulls the same shot quality. News flash - I'm struggling to find a decent cup amongst the proliferation of Synesso's around town and yes I try out at least 4-5 a week. Trying another today. Is it the machine (nope), the beans (no comment, but maybe) or the barista (perhaps) ? I respect good equipment and have a faith that in the right hands with correctly roasted/blended beans they can absolutely create a memorable cup. Yes, I agree cafes spending serious $$ should be more serious about cup quality. When you see it in the most unexpected places it does *raise the antenna* of curiosity to the point you feel compelled to "try it". I get suckered in myself every time. Unfortunately, for some around Melbourne, the bling is creating a false sense of comfort/security as they are fed a steady diet of over-hyped, supposedly rock-star beans prepared with the wrong roast profile.

Lacehim

on 1327302502:

After a little coaching...  "We were taught how to use the machine"  "We are not allowed to touch any thing or make adjustments " "We steam to 65C ...."  "We use Aribica coffee beans"  Parrot / Rope learning and no true concept or understanding.  Polly want a cracker.. In other words; follow the check list..... Press x, move container to Y, press z, do ab, move to f,  etc etc etc Once again, Marketing and the spin Dr have done wonders...

They need this though so that their product is consistant(ly bad <--- well it is GJ) across all their stores nationwide   I really don't see them as coffee shops, I see them as beverage suppliers!  There drinks do not resembled much in the way of coffee these days unless you want whipped cream, and flavourings etc. In my eyes a good barista can do something with an average machine and decent beans.

Kelsey

When BrettH, Derrilex and I were at the Campos cupping session our 'guide' spoke at some length about the training Campos baristas received to ensure that their technique is consistent across all stores - so that the customer can expect the same experience from the same bean and drink style from any Campos barista. I didn't actually have a coffee at Campos the other day, so I can't comment on the quality of their shots. Presumably it's better than GJs! Idle speculation: at what level of information does rote training become a good thing? If the beans were equal, would the result be equal? I wonder how much knowledge the Campos baristas actually have, beyond 'dose to this level, tamp like this, pour for 25 seconds'?

Kelsey

I was smartly dressed down and told that I knew nothing and they she has been making and teaching others for years AND to get out of her shop.

Wow. Just.... wow.

Brett H

AM: I looked at her and asked... Di you just run a short run through that same puck ? She smiled and said "Why Yes, don't you know...  It's adds flavour and makes it a stronger coffee"  Then proceeded to scald the milk with the growth  err steam wand. RIGHT! That does it!  I am setting up a Coffee Police Force who will be armed with Phasers and they will blast our way to coffee redemption.  They will be called the Caffeinators and for the Gympie bint they will set their Phasers to KILL!

UNM

on 1327381853:

I looked at her and asked... Di you just run a short run through that same puck ? She smiled and said "Why Yes, don't you know...  It's adds flavour and makes it a stronger coffee"  Then proceeded to scald the milk with the growth  err steam wand. I made the mistake of saying in a pleasant manner; More like overextracted and burnt (3 min in the group for the second round - I was thinking) let alone the added unknowns on the steam wand... I was smartly dressed down and told that I knew nothing and they she has been making and teaching others for years AND to get out of her shop. I had already paid for the coffee, but felt it was best to just leave..

Hmm, had it been me, I'd have asked for a refund on being asked to leave, but my heritage may be showing there.

UNM

on 1327405500:

That being said, it was just not worth the most minor rise in heart rate.. Just walk away and realise that at least GJ is consistent and have some reasonable check-list, that they follow.

I own a franchised business. At various meetings, franchisees have heard the refrain of 'at McDonalds, franchisees don't buy their products from whoever they want, they all use the same ingredients and you will get the same burger at a McDonalds in any city on the planet, ....'. The gist being that our franchise system aspires to be the worlds best at what we do, so we model ourselves on McDonalds. Leaving aside the fact this is demonstrably false (I NEVER had beetroot in a burger in the northern hemisphere - yuck!), it is the aspiration to be like McDonalds (or any of the US large chain franchises) that make me die a little inside. There has to be a way for franchise systems to not only accommodate local variations, but actively encourage improvements by the best franchisees, while eliminating the dross. I reckon any GJ outlet (or any other franchise) should provide a  product that, AT A MINIMUM, meets your reasonable expectations and in some instances exceeds those, with the product improving over time as they incorporate franchisee feedback.

derrilex

Hey Kelsey, remember the guy at campos telling us they have terminated contracts with campos bean users in the past for bad performance ? Had a campos brew at wickham terrace yesterday and while it was not awful, it was not good.  I wonder how they monitor under achievers ?

Kelsey

I guess part of their jobs is to go hang out in caf

derrilex

Covert ops

Kelsey

Speaking of which, how's that MM treating you?

mycuppa

on 1327438883:

Hey Kelsey, remember the guy at campos telling us they have terminated contracts with campos bean users in the past for bad performance ? Had a campos brew at wickham terrace yesterday and while it was not awful, it was not good.  I wonder how they monitor under achievers ?

I'd take a bet that said terminated contracts are more likely the result of poor/bad payments (which in itself is a performance related issue) rather than barista skills. Improving skills of baristas is a much easier problem to solve compared to extracting overdue monies from customers who have taken delivery of goods and consumed the products - it's not as if the supplier can repo the goods/products. Be aware that most of the *contracts* you see in place have credit terms attached and this is generally the area that falls into dispute long before anything else such as perceived abilities to prepare an espresso shot are considered. That said, any good supplier takes a keen interest in the beverage preparation of their customer's cafes. I know I get very obsessed about it.....and have removed my equipment from cafes due to *issues*.

Kelsey

Interesting! Thanks for that Jeff - I consider myself something of a cynic, so I should've realised that profit was more likely the motivating factor than quality (no matter how much our guide inferred that was the case). Inferred tho, not outright claimed... which in itself is probably telling. At least I can ask for 50% up front - and pull down the sites if they don't pay!

derrilex

The MM is quite odd. Milk makes the world of difference. Very nutty in flavour and dare I say buttery. Ive now blended a bit with SO east timor and it goes well

ash

Well I have to thank the Gloria Jeans at Stockland in Townsville for starting me on my coffee adventure, believe it or not. When it first opened up I was a regular there, so much so that the owner suggested to me that I might be better off getting my own coffee machine, which has lead me to end up here   Mind you I haven't had a GJ's in a couple of years now, I'm not sure I could stand the taste of the beans they use in their blend.

Ronin

Interesting read this thread. Seems I opened a can of worms. Franchises like GJ's are usually consistently bad, but constant none the less. I have come the the realization that there is a place for all types of coffee related products I mean, not in MY CUP, but a place non the less. Without the mass coffee, there wouldn't be specialty coffee and home machines & roasting, so we all benefit. @mycuppa. I have to agree Jeff. I personally have had dealings with a major coffee company owner in Brisbane who "knows coffee" or so he thinks, and had the same experience. Dollars drive the product. "But you CAN be a specialty coffee company roasting 10T a week" he says Maybe so, but not with that product I think

FreshCoffee2

Gosh fellas, here we go again hehehe..... The use of such equipment is nothing more than business owners attempting to use every tool at their disposal to try and attract as much business as they can. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. What is wrong, is they've gained the impression that by doing that (attaching themselves to coffee machine or grinder brand names), that they will get instant cred ( for using such brand names). Its the cred they're after to get people in the door, and quality is an entirely separate issue. If you are after quality, you will take steps to get that no matter what brand equipment you use although....if you are quality minded then you will attempt to get the best possible equipment you can. The thing is, you can give these internet cred brand names to some people who will ruin the coffee, and you can give base grade machines to others who will work them to best effect in the cup. The brand name is not an indication of a quality production by the operator. Certainly if you give someone a better tool, it is more likely their "game" will inmprove. But that also brings in a multitude of other factors in the quality stakes some of them being: Who says this brand 2 boiler machine is "better" than some other brand, or some other brand HX machine? What is the definition of "better"? In what context and situation? For what type of coffees milk or black? Can the consumers pick the difference? If they do (pick a difference), can it be definitively attributed to the fact of using a 2 boiler design over an HX design? If they do (pick a difference), can it be attributed to anything more than individual likes, dislikes, and opinions on what constitutes a "better" coffee? Who is right? Can any consumer comentators give a qualified opinion on quality, or is it only personal opinion? What is their background? If the shop concerned had staff who were capable of "interpreting" their coffee nicely into a fine drinkable brew, then they would be able to do it with a low end machine as well. Its a shame to see how people are influenced enough by what they read on the internet that they will be swayed to go into a cafe just because of the brand of equipment placed on the bench. Once the clients have their bums in the seats however, the cafe needs to follow up with the right staff to work the equipment properly and to best effect. A 2 boiler commercial esp machine is a manufacturer's interpretation of what constitutes a "better" design in some cafe situations, where "better" = hopefully....a machine that is less affected in its capacity to deliver steam, than a heat exchanger machine, during high volume production of coffee. This has not much to do with quality of coffee except where in a high volume situation, a heat exchanger machine could in some situations cool to a point, due to high demand for steam, where the black coffee are less than satisfactorily extracted. This is not an issue in countries where most coffee prioduction is black. It is only likely to be an issue where most coffee production is white. But most cafes in this country have such small average production, that it isn't an issue in real terms. The rest is academic cyclic internet discussison from people outside the coffee service industry. After that there are good design and build commercial espresso machines just as there are low end design and build machines. What I am getting at, is that just because a machine or a brand has a certain level of internet cred, doesnt necessarily mean it is "better" than anything else and that people should somehow expect miracles to be performed in every cafe where they may be in use.  If you could walk into any cafe anywhere with this brand name equipment, and could be assured of a high standard of brew no matter what.....then I would have to eat my hat. Until then.......I remain content with my opinion of it all!  Declaring openly: My company CosmoreX Coffee imports high grade heat exchanger (HX) BFC espresso coffee machines as well as their multiple boiler PID contolled machines, and I am on the panel of judges (coffee comp) of the Royal Agricultural Society of NSW.

WotB

Where is the shop that has no machine whatsoever? I don't pay much heed to what machine is sitting on the bench.  Seems to be that brand A produces better shots than brand B?  Mostly dependent on the operator. What does it matter if GJs use LM?  Just an overpriced coffee milkshake maker in their case.

Ronin

on 1327714771:

What does it matter if GJs use LM?  Just an overpriced coffee milkshake maker in their case.

Doesn't matter at all. I was just surprised is all.