Iced Coffee

RolfG

I am a frequent visitor to this discussion group and it seems like there are many knowledgable opinions on which I would like to draw.
I am a well established cafe in Brisbane (8 years now) and have noticed a lot of competition from chains selling iced coffees and what they cal "chillers". I am thinking of putting some of these products in my cafe. \
Does anyone have an opinion on them and any idea where or who I may contact to abtain them?

admin

Hi Rolf - I'm not sure about how people have found them, but you could contact Cappuccine in Sydney, who sell Freezocino, on 02 8338 8388. Ciao Admin

Unknown

Please don't!

FreshCoffee2

ok now you've done it... Any reason why not? Rest of us might like to know. FC

Unknown

Chillers are not coffee. Pretty simple! don't you think fresh? Always play to your strengths especially in business and now this guy after eight years wants to do something supermarket style cafes do. This makes no sense to me. Now your turn Fresh give it to me...

FreshCoffee2

G'day Ivan, with repect to your comments I agree these chiller thaings are not coffee and SHOULD have no place. But there is a lot more to this than meets the eye and everyone in this forum knows I am not short of being long winded, so: I expect we are talking about what others call "frappe's" or "funny buggered up ice drink confections" as I like to call them. Well, as long as we are talking about the same things. In any case whilst these are not coffee, cafes and coffee companies alike are taking them on board (to the chagrin of this coffee company representative, make no mistake) usually for the reason that some competing cafe or american chain "cafe" has them, and they're afraid they're losing all their customers to the competition who have these frappes...therefore they must have them as well. Instead of letting the cafes buy this stuff direct from the importers of iced confection "mixes" or general wholsealers, some coffee companies come on board and offer these mixes as a point of extra service over other coffee companies...so then all the other coffee companies have to take them on as well or lose custom. The old "well, I can get all this other stuff from the other coffee supplier so if you can't or won't..." is becoming ever more heard in the industry. Life is so complicated...   So I repeat, with repect to your comments I agree these chiller thaings are not coffee and should have no place in the coffee side of things, but the virtues of competition have them being introduced and forcing all and sundry to get in on the act. Oh and I will say one more thing ( with all due respect to the cafe owner who started this thread). Realistically, this kind of topic usually raises its ugly head when things are not going well for an individual cafe...and the management starts looking around at what the competition is doing. When things are going well, and you are not offering iced confections, who cares? All the above has nothing to do with whether they taste good or not or are a nice extra line to offer in your cafe, it simply has to do with the ever grinding wheels of competition and the unregulated number of cafes opening up all over the place in an ever saturated market. So what's next for the coffee roasting industry? Perhaps we are going to be forced into supplying toys for the use of cafe patron's children, to keep them amused while their parents drink their favourite frappe? However, one more thing if I may...if I am forced to take on frappe mixes but there is a buck to be made out of it along with the cafe clients that want the stuff...well that's ok then isn't it and it helps grow the business. In my honest opinion ofcourse. FC Coffee merchant and future toy importer?

Unknown

Fresh you read my mind, Of course these things are done in the spirit of competition or is it? Perhaps these "chillers" are part of a strategy to force out gulable cafe owners who, in an effort to keep up with the jones' take on a wider line, hence streching their resources and cash until it all runs out. Franchisers are mostly not interested in their product as they are in real estate. Divide the industry and conquer. Thats the name of the game. Personally I would not consider franchisers that sell chillers as my direct competitors. It is important to make that distinction and your problems will be limited. Today I went to Bambini Trust Cafe in the city Bambini who won Best cafe SMH good food guide 2004... one of the greatest disappointments in my life I would have prefered a mocha chiller... Getting back to the issue... chillers suck, coffee is good it is like the battle between good and evil. Eight years experience should tell you something is going right. Get back to basics and establish a priority Lets get coffee standards to a respectable level. Ivan

RolfG

I think you stalwarts of the coffee industry have a lot to learn. My past success has been based on the fact that I am prepared to offer my customers a) what they want and b) new and exciting products. Coffee purists like Ivan and company have (excuse the phrase ) their heads stuck up their arses. Wake up! It's a new world - people want new ideas, new and exciting products. Who cares if frappes are not made with 100% Arabica and with the baristas care! Baristas are over-rated anyway. These frappes taste great, get the younger crowds in and I can make a 70% GP on them. Give 'em what they want and to hell with your purist philosophies!

FreshCoffee2

Quite. You are not getting any argument from this quarter concerning giving the punters what they want, and I do note we are getting a little off topic, however if you read the second last post above yours, there is more to this than meets the eye and I thought it was well enough explained.

Unknown

I put it to you that You can tell people what they want, your decision to put chillers is based on your perception of what people want. Lets wise up and dictate the pace purist or not. Im a down for cash, and lets be honest who isn't but next time you think about adding something into your line please think about the bigger picture. Finally, think about this question and please respond; who is the most important entity in your business?

RolfG

I thank you for your input. In reply to Ivan- I am the most important entity in my shop. Why? Because without me my shop doesn't exist. In Reply to FC: I think that most coffee companies sneer at iced coffe frappe mixes and look down upon it as a second rate product - unrelated to coffee. I think it's an arrogant attitude to have. But in reality (and whether u like it or not)the average customer does not make the distinction - he looks towards his coffee distributor to provide an iced coffee solution. I won't generalize, but most roasters would not dare carry a frappe mix, or even a vanilla base to which they can add their own shot into or even recommend a company (eg. freezaccino)specializing in such products because "it's not coffee". To these arrogant roasters I say wake the F--K up! Drop your arrogance and start giving the customer some service - for God's sake. To those roasters who have made the effort and explored the frappe market and who are giving customers an all inclusive coffee service - to you I take my hat off.

FreshCoffee2

Rolfe, I sincerely think you are reading more into some kind of frappe mix / coffee supplier relationship than there really is, so in regard to: "....I think that most coffee companies sneer at iced coffe frappe mixes and look down upon it as a second rate product...." Speaking personally, this is not so I'm afraid. I simply dont see what frappe mix has to do with coffee. It is an instant iced confection mix so that would put it with either a) a cash and carry wholesaler who carries things like jelly powder, summer cordials, fruit syrups and toppings, or perhaps b) a soft drink company, accompanying perhaps post mix ingredients and equipment; So yes as you wrote..."...unrelated to coffee...". Why on earth would the average cafe customer "....look towards his coffee distributor to provide an iced coffee solution...." that I dont think has anything to do with coffee? Ok, so some bright spark marketing executive hack included the words "coffee", or "latte", or "mocha" in some of the names (like "mocha chocolate latte" or whatever). So what? With repect, whoever decided the stuff is an "iced coffee" solution, its a slushie with milk powder and flavourings aint it? Speaking personally, I wonder if it may actually be an "iced milk" confection, so what about your milk supplier? Re your "......I won't generalize, but most roasters would not dare carry a frappe mix, or even a vanilla base to which they can add their own shot into or even recommend a company (eg. freezaccino)specializing in such products because "it's not coffee".." Not so I'm afraid...they just dont see why they should have to when accommodating specialists like the guys at Freezocino (and others) already exist. My beef is with cafe owners that come up with the famous last words..."I dont want to have to have an account with another supplier, I want YOU (thats "me") to be a complete supplier so I can buy all my supplies from the one place". Where does this logic end, when coffee roasting companies turn into general wholesalers running around organising chocolates, shortbreads, tablecloths, general hardware etc etc? Re your ".....To these arrogant roasters I say wake the F--K up! Drop your arrogance and start giving the customer some service - for God's sake...." I think you are being very harsh indeed. Some of us are already bending over backwards giving service just with the mammoth task of trying to educate their cafe clients to stop them F'..ING UP (to use your words) a relatively simple thing as espresso and destroying their good name (its on the side of the cup), let alone having to get into the VERY EXPENSIVE task of value adding such as having to run out half way across town to adjust a coffee grinder that their client's staff put out of adjustment only none of them know how to put it back where it was...without charge, gratis. Let alone having to run out and attend to equipment breakdowns then have to suffer some clients arrogantly refusing to pay service call and spare part charges. It's also quite heartbreaking for some coffee suppliers to see how the equipment they own, and have "loaned" out to their client, is mistreated to an incredible degree, eventually suffering in performance of its duties, so then the supplier is blamed for supplying "substandard" equipment, and the client goes to another supplier to start the cycle again, but not before bad mouthing the first supplier to all and sundry. This I think is very arrogant. I personally think a lot of value adding and good service given by some coffee suppliers is taken for granted and that their goodwill is often abused, so on the contrary, "...I take my hat off ..." to professional cafe clients who take responsibility for themselves and dont do business off the backs of their suppliers. And in closing, I am still confused as to why an instant iced confection powder has more to do with your coffee supplier, than your meat and veg supplier, or your milk supplier, or your general wholesaler, or your soft drink company, OR, why any of them should need to get involved at all when Freezocino and others exist as "stand alone" specialists in the field. (By the way guys, I've now mentioned Freezocino countless times, so now what can you guys do for me.....could you throw in an extra carton or two? LOL) FC.

RolfG

Fresh - You raise some intersting points. After my in depth study of iced coffees ( and there are now numerous brands on the market ) I have come to realise that these are no longer niche products, but rather products which are gaining main stream acceptance in the  cafe market. If we are to take our "lead" from Europe & the US - these products will soon be on every cafe menu and fast food joint in Australia.These are serious products. I'm not saying they will ever be as big as Coke or coffee, but they are here to stay. The general cafe owner unfortunately cannot always make the distinction as clearly as you do FC,and my point was merely that in his in-expert opinion he would look to his coffee supplier for an iced coffee solution. And they are coffee products. Made with real coffee albeit instant Arabica. What you say about guys like Freezaccino being specialists is true. These guys do provide more than just products. There is know-how as well as very important Point of purchase and the correct blender or vitamizing equipment is also very important.So I guess you could say they are specialists in their field. All I can say is that I have been to a store recently that serve the Freezacinos and they are good and they do appeal to the youngsters. (Freezaccino guys should be paying me to say all this !!)

FreshCoffee2

Well yes, they taste fine and may infact take market from some soft drinks while the weather is hot. They actually remind me a of proper Italian style *gelato* where an ice confection actually feels very smooth and creamy rather than icy in the mouth. ...Now about those toys we (coffee companies) are going to have to go into next... FC.

Unknown

Toys??? aren't they the coffee machines?

Unknown

Wasn't this disscussion first based upon the topic of iced coffees?? ::) Yes, chillers are a popular drink for alot of big cafes, but what my cafe has been doing is making our own iced coffee syrups . All it that needs to happen is mixing  shots of coffee with sugar (to preferred taste). This is all that is needed for the base mix, place into a sealable container and store in the fridge. Use a shot-and-a-half in a glass and add cold milk, top with whipped cream and a mint stick...it's much cheaper than having another supplier to deal with  

Unknown

Hi , I've only been making coffee for a short amount of time compared to most people in the industry ( only 5 years) and haven't kept up to date as much as I would have liked. When I worked in a cafe in Cairns I used to make an Iced Coffee Frappe made with an espresso shot, ice, ice-cream, sugar and milk. I know in a busy cafe using a mixture saves time, but nothing can compare to the real taste of espresso in your iced-coffee. You're giving the customer what they want without compromising the true coffee flavour. Just a thought, I can see how it may be difficult in an extremely busy cafe environment.

Unknown

Hi , I've only been making coffee for a short amount of time compared to most people in the industry ( only 5 years) and haven't kept up to date as much as I would have liked. When I worked in a cafe in Cairns I used to make an Iced Coffee Frappe made with an espresso shot, ice, ice-cream, sugar and milk. I know in a busy cafe using a mixture saves time, but nothing can compare to the real taste of espresso in your iced-coffee. You're giving the customer what they want without compromising the true coffee flavour. Just a thought, I can see how it may be difficult in an extremely busy cafe environment.

Brett H

Hot day today.  42degC on the deck.  Happy about the invention of aircon however!  Iced Coffee eh: One Shot of Rwandan One Tablespoon of maple syrup Dilute with 60ml of water and 200ml milk Pour over ice in 450ml double-walled Glass Easy and great! Bug thumbs-up from the better half

Kevohere

Gonna try that one tomorrow with some PNG NCT. Thanks Brett.

Brett H

It'll work a treat with the sparkling crisp green apple acidity of PNG beans to cut through the milk  :rofl: Sorry, mate...It sounds awesome but I've just been reading a CS thread I was directed to courtesy of a Facebook post.  My opening sentence was a pastiche in deference to some of the interesting folk that posted.... I wonder if they'll ever take me back  :stir

Lwowiak

on 1416824185:

sparkling crisp green apple acidity

This would have to be the least palatable description of a coffee imaginable.

Brett H

Yep!!  It was that or forest floor tannins!

Kevohere

on 1416910524:

Yep!!  It was that or forest floor tannins!

That has subconsciously put a nasty taste in my mouth.  :rofl: I never got around to trying the PNG version of your iced coffee Brett.  The weather down here has reverted to (normal) cooler Spring temps.

Unknown

Iced coffee is my life. When I wake up, often around the time party animals on the west coast are just heading home, I start each day not with a cup of freshly brewed hot java, but with a tall, blessed glass of creamy iced coffee in a glass. I

Brett H

Welcome John and thanks for a great first post.  What is your brewing method of choice??