Organic foods.... any real benefits?

Brett H

"Seems that this is yet another shop in our area that thinks tacking on "organic" to their name/merchandise will make folk pay premium dollars for stuff they don't need"  Lacehim 2012

I personally could take it or leave it in regards to organic.  If the produce looks, smells or tastes better then sure but otherwise I don't have a strong opinion one way or another.  It's not that I'm being Switzerland/neutral/diplomatic but just that I couldn't be stuffed.  Food standards in Australia (especially in regards to pesticide residues) are very stringent and I take comfort from that.  I'll buy local/Australian farmed/produced before I buy organic.  I like the idea of better labeling for country of origin as is currently being attended to.

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2009/07July/Pages/OrganicFoodIsNoBetter.aspx

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/organic-food-eaters-pay-top-dollar-despite-little-evidence-of-health-benefits/story-fndo1wyv-1226464242223

Lacehim

I take very little notice when the word organic is being banded around.  The term "organic" is not regulated in Australia as far as I know, and really you just have to take a persons word for it.  It attracts a premium price, because folks think they are getting something better/safer. Our family buy fresh produce from local farmers weekly at local farmers markets, and I buy local milk from coles. (which by the way has a 1 week longer date life than all the milk from the big companies).

RichardM

on 1347172844:

I take very little notice when the word organic is being banded around.  The term "organic" is not regulated in Australia as far as I know, and really you just have to take a persons word for it.  It attracts a premium price, because folks think they are getting something better/safer. Our family buy fresh produce from local farmers weekly at local farmers markets, and I buy local milk from coles. (which by the way has a 1 week longer date life than all the milk from the big companies).

The words "Certified Organic" are regulated, so look for that. I personally don't think it holds much weight. I know people who buy organic everything, but buy their chinese fish from Coles....pointless. Eat and live as locally as you can, and you'll probably be ok.

Lwowiak

To me, "Organic" is nothing more than a marketing term, and is so outdated, the term is irrelevant. Today's farmers are astute, and do their best to produce quality produce, be it fruit, vegetables or meat. Most are concerned about sustainability, taste and quality. To me, the main concern is what pesticides have been used on the produce. Pesticides and their residue should be our concern, hence the use of "pesticide free" or "minimal spray" is to my preference. This is a lot more relevant than the use of animal dung as fertiliser. Plants will take from the soil (or growing medium) exactly what they need, and will not choose nitrogen from an animal, over that provided in "chemical" form. Chemical fertilisers are nothing more than purified minerals which are natural in the first place. In Organic farming, the micro nutrients are permitted from a chemical source, so the reasoning that NKP cannot, is flawed. The problem with organic fertilisers sourced from animals is the possible presence of e coli bacteria. I have done a lot of gardening and tried many methods. In the end, organic did not provide the best product or taste. Sometimes, pesticides must be used due to the location and presence of pests. Overall, we are better off supporting local farmers, and buying as fresh as possible. In regards to taste, quality heirloom varieties tend to be more flavoursome than the ones requested by the Major supermarkets. I try to buy as much as possible from local markets, or fruit and veg stores. The supermarkets in general have very poor offerings and tend to be more expensive. I look at the produce, and do not care if it is organic.

Ol Grumpy

Unfortunately us city folk live a very sanitized and highly manipulated lifestyle. No wo-wo in that sentance- just stating how it is. I grew up on a (Organic and Bio-dynamic) Market Garden and a separate dairy farm in Yarra Junction, and Woori Yallock Victoria. There is so much hype, sensationalism and frankly plain crap flying around this topic that the truth has become an unfortunate victim of all the hype. At best the truth is greatly blurred. There remain some undeniable truths though... 1) You are what you eat. 2) Much of what we eat barely resembles the actual food it came from. 3) The fresh food you eat can only be as good as the soil it came from. 4) The answer lies in the soil! This may seem a little terse, no apologies offered. You can believe what you like but the truth is we all should be eating the freshest most unpolluted foods we can. You would not be wise in blindly accepting 'big brother' approval for what you put in your mouth. But that's up to you. OG

Ol Grumpy

Somehow I didn't get my point across.... I'd like to put it like this... The unavoidable conclusion to life is the long dirt nap we all get to take... Your choice is to prolong or hasten this absolute conclusion... If you honestly believe what you put in your mouth does not have a significant impact on this proposition then you are indeed the modern Marketers puppet...

RichardM

on 1347276004:

Somehow I didn't get my point across.... I'd like to put it like this... The unavoidable conclusion to life is the long dirt nap we all get to take... Your choice is to prolong or hasten this absolute conclusion... If you honestly believe what you put in your mouth does not have a significant impact on this proposition then you are indeed the modern Marketers puppet...

I was trying to work out which way you were leaning. Was hard by your post. I think most people agree: 1) Food produced ethically, sustainably, locally, and with minimal chemicals is best 2) "Certified Organic" doesn't add anything to the process - as in, your home grown vegetables aren't "Certified Organic" but that doesn't mean they are worse than those that are. 3) If you eat TV dinners and takeaway food, don't be surprised that you aren't exactly treating your body as a temple. Just for reference, by the way, if you go to a place that makes bulk batches of cakes/pies etc, in their carpark you'll see a heap of 1Tonne plastic Chep "Pallets". Some of them will be labelled such wonderful things as "Powdered Egg". No matter how good the ingredients list looks (Flour, Egg, Sugar etc) how many processes they go through before they even hit the bakery is an unknown. In short: 1) If you want to know what is in something without the bullshit, grow it yourself. 2) If you want to know what you are eating for dinner, cook it from scratch. Hint: If you are putting anything into your meal that has more than one ingredient to start with, just accept it's most likely garbage and move on.

hiphipharar

on 1347276004:

If you honestly believe what you put in your mouth does not have a significant impact on this proposition then you are indeed the modern Marketers puppet...

Certainly I think there is cause for concern on the quality of food produced or processed in the last 50 years compared to what it was like up to, say, 1950. The quest has been to improve crop production and efficiency but I think that has been at the expense of flavour and nutritional value. Producers tend to overcome this by adding (or claiming to add) supplements to enhance flavour and nutritional value. I have been taking multivitamin supplements for years - expensive, but premium quality ones. The microbiologist who developed these products claims that the nutritional value of food these days is a fraction of what it was 50 years ago. I do however agree that a diet of fresh, good quality food replaces the need to use nutritional supplements. The problem is I don't trust the local supermarket to provide the best quality ingredients to achieve that outcome. The majors will buy from the cheapest supplier, not the best.

FreshCoffee2

Hence why "farmer's markets" have become so popular these days. Staying within the bounds of the title of the topic. The benefit alas, of trying to source "better" foods, may be quite intangible in that just because it is "organic" doesnt mean its going to taste better. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt be trying to source and eat "better" foods regardless of labels such as "organic". However I think that comes in most instances, in later life with some maturity.  Your body might be your temple and I agree, but try telling that to anyone under 30 

RichardM

on 1347330888:

  Your body might be your temple and I agree, but try telling that to anyone under 30 

Oi old man! I'm under 30!

FreshCoffee2

Hehehe yeah I was wondering if that would pull anyone in! A better turn of phrase might have been "many under 30" 

paranomia

on 1347330888:

...The benefit alas, of trying to source "better" foods, may be quite intangible in that just because it is "organic" doesnt mean its going to taste better.

Similar to Free Range in chicken, etc. - when it first started in the supermarkets the checkout chick asked if it tasted better, my response was "No, but it's the thought that counts".

Ol Grumpy

Getting back to the topic... The answer is a resounding Yes! The challenge is actually sourcing the genuine article- through all the smoke and mirrors of Marketing. Large Supermarket chains do absolutely nothing that doesn't increase shareholder dividends- its why they exist. I've dealt with the Supermarket buyers and it's not a pleasant experience- it's cold hard business under immense price pressure. There are always more people wanting contracts than contracts available. They will not hesitate to buy Oranges from overseas with questionable safety regs. And checks to save a buck. They wont lose sleep when the orchardist ploughs his trees under. Does anyone really believe the 'Milk War' is going to help Farmers improve quality? Consumers unwittingly and uncaringly create this situation- we do It to ourselves. We, the consumers, put independent fuel suppliers out of business and gave the big boys permission to screw us over. The same with the warehouse hardware stores... We gave them permission to screw us over. It's the same with the supermarkets.... Through advertising/marketing we are all highly manipulated. It's the way of the jungle. It is the reality of life in the fast lane. If you've ever had any experience whatsoever with gardening or growing veggies you will immediately recognise that a great deal of effort goes into soil preparation. The soil is fertilized and prepared for planting and the fruits of that preparation are enjoyed at harvest time. I'm going to draw an analogy because time and space do not permit a proper explanation, but I hope you get the gist of it... I think we all understand and appreciate the negative aspects of drug use (abuse) on our bodies... I'm talking alcohol, tobacco, dope, speed, cocaine, heroin, and so on. Whatever short term gain is enjoyed by the drug use- the long term negative effects outweigh the short term benefits and with long term abuse/overdose death is the likely outcome. I draw the same analogy with the use of chemical fertilizers and pesticides, etc. there are real measurable short term benefits but there are long term consequences for over reliance, over use and the ultimate loser is the soil. (and us as consumers) Farms with long term chemical reliance and (I say) abuse have Dead soil- no worms, no microbes, just dead soil. Btw- disease thrives in unhealthy soil.... Chemical fertilizers and pesticides, etc have long term negative effect on the health of the soil and what is grown in it. Big brother is well aware of this. This is not some conspiracy... it is 'market reality'. Right now Strawberries are in season. You simply cannot compare the strawberries you buy in the Supermarket to what my Neighbour picked and gave me from his heirloom bushes. SuperMarket varieties are selected by totally different criteria. Taste is very low down the list. We as consumers are just becoming more accustomed to many shades of bland. This answer is way too brief but hopefully you get the picture... Like I said- the answer really does lie in the soil.... OG The other great example is Eggs... Battery hens are hatched, live and die on a diet of chemicals- then we eat them. Crack an egg from a backyard chook house and compare to the supermarket egg and then tell me you can't see, smell and taste the difference. No comparison.

Ol Grumpy

Eggs: I'm sure you realise that so much of what you see on the supermarket egg shelf is complete Bull$hit. I've worked ( house renovations- I'm a builder now) at a couple of the egg farms in Thornlands, Brisbane  just recently. These are 'big name' egg farms. The amount of security that surrounds these places is literally more like getting into Wacol  prison (I've done work in there too- not as a guest). The security restricting public access is truly astounding. Why? Because the eggs from this farm are sold as 'barn laid' and there are in fact very strict guidelines about how these chickens are raised, fed, kept and housed. The reality is simply these chickens are on a battery egg farm, they are battery hens and the eggs are battery eggs... BUT the chickens live in a gutted out battery egg shed ( thousands of chickens in a huge open shed- generation after generation eating, shitting and dieing on the same bare dirt... by another name- we as consumers are being lied to. Simple as that. The 'big name' egg farm is going to extraordinary lengths to prevent the public seeing and knowing the truth. ASIC, ACCC or whoever it is, would have their guts for garters. Like I said- the challenge is finding the true organic/bio dynamic products- not whether they are any better for you, or not. Yes, the organic products will most likely be more expensive - but not that much more. Farmers Markets may be a good place to start.

FreshCoffee2

I think in most instances, people do what they can dependent on their particular set of circumstances, and I count myself lucky that we have an extensive vegetable garden and chickens (surprised you cant hear our rooster through your computer..he's pretty vocal this morning). And yes, strawberries and eggs spring immediately to mind as foods that do taste quite different and vastly better when plucked from your own holding instead of the supermarket shelf. Tomatoes are another. On taste and character alone, I cant / wont eat "bought" eggs. It was a seamless change when we went from bought eggs to home grown ones, but the difference is mammoth when you go from a home grown egg to a bought one (and our chickens really do free range around our paddocks and even sometimes over the lane to the neighbours, and they get all our kitchen scraps except for the ones that go to our worm farm). But many other foods dont really taste any different (to me). And there is also the method of cooking ie do we /you cook pretty much from scratch or not. We do. Its the total philosophy that counts as you & others have well annunciated.  Eat well, stay healthy.