Question about Levers

C-man

Why do they have springs?

I though the whole Idea was to give the operator full control of the pressure and flow?

Kelsey

Because on bigger commercial levers it takes a fair amount of muscle power to get the pressure right - and even then you'll be inconsistent. I reckon commercial operators would have found manual levers unsustainable in a busy environment. The spring allows for a consistent extraction, but the operator still has scope to get involved. You choose the length of the preinfusion and you can retard the lever's progress if you want to manually pressure profile the shot. You can also do things like the "Fellini" and make a second pull halfway through extraction. So while a spring lever might seem to defeat the purpose, it's there for practical reasons and it helps maintain consistency while allowing perhaps a few more options then a semi auto. Also, it just looks cool.

galumay

I presume they were developed when the need for multiple group machines arose, you cant very well pull 4 shots at once manually! In terms of a one group machine there is no real compelling reason to prefer a spring over a manual lever, other than the one Kelsey mentions - they look cool!

Ol Grumpy

Pardon my ignorance... But is there such a thing as a full Manual lever? I have a Presso which meets this criteria... And French Press, etc I mean more in a commercial group format?

Kelsey

No idea. Certainly some of the domestic La Pavs come as manual versions. One way to tell - google image search for levers - any that are at rest with the lever down are manual.

conikal

on 1352343992:

Pardon my ignorance... But is there such a thing as a full Manual lever?

well,..it depend what you mean by "commercial group format ?.. .. I have a fully manual Gaggia Achille lever, 58mm brass group & PF, HX brew boiler, etc etc.. This is it on the right beside its small brother the "Gaggia Factory"

Brett H

Conikal, this is killing me that I can't see your bling: http://www.bestcafes.com.au/forum/requests-for-admin-assistance/how-to-post-photos-in-crema-forum/msg13543/#msg13543

conikal

for some reason , posting images is currently not co-operating  :mad: :mad:.. ( one of those computer off days ) so i will try with a "stock photo from google.. ( which is working in the "preview"  pane ) And if that fails, there is a brief review on HB here ..  http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/buyers-guide-to-gaggia-achille-t2359.html

Kelsey

How do you find it to use? How do you find it compares with spring lever machines?

Brett H

Ooooo.... Nice!

conikal

I have never owned a spring lever m/c, so i cant comment on the comparisons . But the Gagia is very different to most other lever systems as the piston draws COLD water from the top (clear) tank, into the  cylinder and the lever action then forces that cold water through a HX coil in the steam boiler and back into the group and onto the puck....(much like a pump HX m/c) It uses  standard 58mm baskets and each lever stroke can pump 60ml for a "double espresso" So steam boiler and water are totally separated from the brew water . This also means you can refill the brew water without switching off the boiler. The main negatives with this m/c are that the steam wand tip is of the typical domestic Gaggia "frother" vaiety ( now changed for a classic single hole "acorn"  type tip )..and the steam valve is notoriously leaky..but not an issue on mine currently. The boiler , base, and casing is all stainless, with the group & PF being heavy chromed brass. Boiler heats up in a few ( 5-6) mins but the group needs a bit longer to really get to a good temp. I  am not really a "taster" specialist,  but the results are very comparable with my Isomac HX pump m/c.   The profession review reported that the m/c held a good consistent group temp after repeated shots. Naturally , as a manual lever, the extraction pressure, and time is under the control of the operator.   I like its good mix of aesthetics and performance together with silent operation.

Kelsey

Very nice!

Lacehim

Wow, nice machine.  Can you post up some video of it in use?  I would love to see that, it seem a very unique design.

conikal

If you check out that review thread on HB there are several videos in the last few pages. http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/buyers-guide-to-gaggia-achille-t2359.html

C-man

Interesting, thanks for the replies guys What sort of pressure are we talking with levers?  9 bar with a taper off or what? Is a spring one set to a certain pressure profile?

Ol Grumpy

Thx conikal :cool

C-man

on 1352343992:

Pardon my ignorance... But is there such a thing as a full Manual lever? I have a Presso which meets this criteria... And French Press, etc I mean more in a commercial group format?

Old Grumpy- a bit off topic but with your Presso (I have one too) they are good if you carefully watch the temp but extraction pressure is limited to get the best out of them I recommend using Soft beans. After much experimenting with different pressures I have discovered soft beans actually prefer a lower extraction pressure.

Ol Grumpy

Thx for the heads-up C-man... Fact is, it was actually a review about the Presso on a totally unrelated 'camping' forum that first awakened the 'possibilities' of home made espresso coffee. It was my very first foray into the world of home espresso and I have a soft spot for it but frankly upgradeitis sees it living in the collectors corner... The other consideration for me is that I want good coffee on site and motorbike camping as well so I'm still fence sitting- but watching your experiments with great interest...

C-man

Grumps- what were you thinking of getting next?

Ol Grumpy

Now that's a very good question... I cannot properly answer without mentioning that personal circumstances beyond my control and 'ducking' when I should have 'weaved' have left me quite financially crippled... As poor as a church mouse until around mid 2014, or so.... Quite humbling but cathartic all the same... A good opportunity to clear the deadwood, so to speak... Recently I found my Franchisee moonlighting so I terminated his franchise which means that whole 'project' has gone on the back burner too- it's a very expensive sand-pit to play in.... Worst thing is I've had to suspend my membership in Mal Emery's Platinum Group; that's a thousand a month necessity I will have to live without, for a little while... So, now, for the time being I find myself back on the tools and being the man in the van, so to speak... So, under 'Normal' circumstances I would have simply ordered a Londinium I and built an appropriate 'shrine' to coffee. (Builder :-) ) Not Gonna Happen Now... Why Londinium? Because I like what Reiss is trying to achieve.... Whether he has hit his mark or not is yet to be seen- but I would have been happy to support his ideals.... So, back to current reality... After buying the Presso from a C-Snob, I very quickly learnt I had very limited control over the extraction process. Ie; limited pressure capability and control and very loose temperature control, at best. You see I'm a Tradie so I like and appreciate hand tools and the self-control required to extract the best from them. I am also a perfectionist and a pedant and I am my own worst critic. So, I am also one of those annoying people that excels at everything they do- but it's never 'easy'- I just don't stop till I've mastered something.... Then typically I get bored and move on to the next 'challenge'... Now, the only reason I've explained all that is because with all that in mind I find I am drawn to the Portapresso system like a hand-in-glove fit... As soon as I can wrangle a spare Grand (whole system) I will snap one up and then the fun shall begin... As a side note: I am particularly drawn to the hand screw model- but I do want the device for Motorbike camping- so weight is a premium- I will most likely get the Air model first and the handscrew model when funds allow...

C-man

being a tradesman myself I understand. I can get some pretty darn good shots from the old Presso and naked handle, just need to be fussy with grind and tamp, there is a fine line that you can't cross with the pressure or it will leak at the shower screen as you know, but you need to come to the edge of that line to get a good shot. I am also careful not to "boil" the water first and then watch it with a thermometer before pulling the shot. Soft beans are the answer for the Presso and it's lower pressure extractions. What grinder are you using?  My mini Rosco does a good job. I think everything Ross does is well made.