Local Roaster House Blend - Stone found in roasted beans

Hatchy

Hi Guys,
I bought a kilo of a local roasters house blend from their Margaret street store last week.
The girl initially tried to sell me beans that were over 2 weeks old telling me 'they're only a few days old' - I insisted on fresher beans and the roast ended up being about a week old which suited me. She lacked knowledge and severely lacked understanding.

This morning my grinder jammed up.
Took it apart and what did I find?
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2][attachimg=3]

Now if I had a more expensive grinder i'd be spitting chips. I am pretty unhappy as it is.

We pay good money for roasts from these boutique houses and the very bloody last thing you expect is that they have failed to do their job and remove stones from the blend.

I'm also annoyed at myself - I didn't keep the bag (they use a paper non-resealable bag) and I paid in cash and said no to a receipt. If I had proof of purchase i'd be making a claim against them for a new set of burrs.

I sent them a courtesy email with photo's so that hopefully they pull this batch from the shelves so nobody else has problems. Without proof of purchase I figured doing that and letting people here know is about all I can do.

Somehow I think that they won't be pulling the bags from the shelves so if you like their coffee, avoid the beans until a new batch comes through.

Hatchy

Koffee_Kosmo

I have had well tumbled glass once in roasted beans Having said that ? As a general rule of hardness, if the stone is softer than hardened steel burrs, the stone won't affect the burrs at all If the stone is harder it will blunt or gouge the burrs Sometimes a shape lends itself to be a perfect wedge and will lock up the burrs hopefully without damage Hope your grinder is OK and unharmed KK

Brett H

on 1352786368:

I have had well tumbled glass once in roasted beans Having said that ? As a general rule of hardness, if the stone is softer than hardened steel burrs, the stone won't affect the burrs at all If the stone is harder it will blunt or gouge the burrs Sometimes a shape lends itself to be a perfect wedge and will lock up the burrs hopefully without damage Hope your grinder is OK and unharmed KK

The words of Attilio ring loudly in my head: "anyone wishing to call themselves a professional roaster must own a Destoner!"

Jonty

Hatchy, You may not have a receipt or evidence to prove the purchase but customer feedback regardless of proof of purchase should be absorbed by the roaster. Seriously its not like your out to do a con job or the likes.  Maybe make some inquiries regarding if they have a destoner and take it from there. I know you are venting but best to have that discussion with the roasting company. Jonty 

beanflying

Ouch  :mad: Could have been worse like Hazchem found a while back as he fed a rock over some ceramic burrs  :doh: I would certainly be advising them you found a potentially damaging rock and ask to speak to their roaster about if they have or use a destoner. If they have one then some fine tuning is certainly needed.

mycuppa

Hate to be the bearer of bad news - it would not matter if it was this batch, the next batch or another batch in 3 months time. Batches are totally irrelevant actually. The reality is almost every batch, from every roaster will have debris - even though I purchase quality beans, I fully expect stones and debris - even in just about all bags of green beans except COE coffees, etc (well, I can say that having roasted many hundreds of kilos of COE coffee, I am yet to spot any debris). Unfortunately, most of the "look at me" shop roasters do not run proper commercial destoners as I'd imagine the "look" would clash with their retro-shabby-chic designs. Destoners are ugly and boring as bat shite to look at.

UNM

Hatchy, I shall not comment one way or the other until I hear what happens in response to your email. I will be very interested in that response

Hatchy

Got a response from local roaster They apologised for my inconvenience... They said it rarely happens but when it does it is very frustrating They said they have a process in place after each roast to visually screen the batch for foreign material. They would like to offer complimentary coffee for my inconvenience (strange seeing as I said to them that I won't be buying from them again). I'd be taking my grinder into my own hands if I accepted the coffee from them I think. All in all I think the tone of the email was apologetic and they wanted to make a gesture to ease the pain. None of that changes the fact that stones should never be in 'professional coffee'.

beanflying

Much as it might sound nice you can't visually screen for rocks like you found. They have a much Higher Density than the beans especially when roasted they will sit at the bottom of the cooler and when your mid roast session you are not going to do more than a cursory glance at the tray due to other things to do. Destoners while ugly don't need to be front of house for shop roaster arrangements and are not that difficult or expensive to have compared to the potential downside.

FreshCoffee2

on 1352966555:

............They said they have a process in place after each roast to visually screen the batch for foreign material. .........They would like to offer complimentary coffee for my inconvenience (strange seeing as I said to them that I won't be buying from them again)............ All in all I think the tone of the email was apologetic and they wanted to make a gesture to ease the pain. None of that changes the fact that stones should never be in 'professional coffee'.

Re "............They said they have a process in place after each roast to visually screen the batch for foreign material....." Sorry to say, but that's rubbish. As noted by BF it cant be done for commercial quantity roasting (unless ofcourse their production is that small....). Harever.....you could be a little more gracious in your reaction to their apology and appropriate attitude.  Build a bridge instead of burning one, thankfully you didnt get "coffee with attitude". I reckon you should thank them and accept their kind offer. You can visually screen small quantities before putting them through your grinder.  And you could tell them nicely, that you would be happy toreturn on regular basis if they invested in a proper destoner. PS my destoner is not at all ugly, it even has a clear perspex port so you can watch the beans flying up the exit pipe. It all depends on how nicely you do it ergo, how much money you are willing to invest in your business to do it properly. But of course my plant looks 21st century and is not "retro shabby chic"....

Hatchy

Hi FC. I think you're a bit quick to judge the level of my graciousness. I accepted the roasters apology and did say to them that I would screen whatever they sent myself before using it in my grinder, and complimented them on their house blend as stones aside it is a great blend. I also asked if they were considering using a destoner at all. Will update on that. I should probably give you background for why I felt soured by the whole experience I did have a bit of coffee with attitude when I tried to purchase the coffee. The girl in the cafe tried to sell me a bag that had a roast date over 2 weeks old and when I asked for a more recent roast than they she said to me with a lot of attitude that it was only a few days old - insisting on a more recent roast I got one that was 5-7days old, but making her move from behind the counter did seem like almost too much. I think that you've done a good thing making your destoner almost a centrepiece - i'm sure it looks cool to those who don't know what it is and to the rest it gives a bit of security when they buy beans. Cheers

askthecoffeeguy

speaking not as a commercial roaster but as a cafe owner, I would far prefer it if a customer raised there legitimate concerns with me and provided me with an opportunity to address and remedy the situation I stopped reading social media comments about my cafe a fair while ago, in part because some were just vile and vindictive, but others were just blatantly untrue,  referencing menu items that hadn't even been on the menu for a year or more - which is a shame really as others were lovely and endearing social media can make or break a business, but mistakes to happen in any environment, and, as I said, a right of reply, combined with the ability to address and remedy a situation ought to be extended to the party in question I for one would also like to here Brother's take on the situation Over the years I've occasionally had stones and once a piece of copper wire go through the grinder, and it is not a pleasant experience - but in most instances it is not life threatening to the grinder Personally I'd be heading back to the place of purchase to ask for a refund or a new and untainted product ACg

FreshCoffee2

Agree with your comments re "antisocial" media and that you prefer for clients to take up their concerns with you directly. However, the supplier would be crazy to come here and give "their take" on the situation, and silence is golden....it leaves everyone with only one side of the story, and nothing to escalate the sitation with publicly. Giving the "other side" in a dispute often causes escalation with a lot of irrelevant vitriolic interference from the sidelines from participants that were not involved, wanting to "lend their support". You have seen these kinds of "beat ups" in other forums. It seems the supplier has started on the road of redress and remedy? correct attitude displayed, offer of coffee with compliments? Please dont take this to mean I'm supporting a business that runs without the proper equipment, but there is usually always more to a situation than a quick hit and run reaction. The only thing required now is to get the point across that this client will not return until the supplier announces they have commissioned a nice new destoner (or if they have one......to have it properly adjusted). Hope that helps.

Kelsey

As someone who helps clients manage their online reputation, Attilio is right on: unless you're able to admit fault and announce how you're rectifying it for that specific customer and the changes yove made to ensure it doesn't happen again for anyone, then you're better off staying silent. The goal is to ensure that any further comeback from the dissatisfied party that is still less than polite comes across as unreasonable and petty. Customers have a lot of sympathy for small business in general. Provided you can show that you're reasonable, apologetic and actively trying to fix the problem, people will generally side with you over a customer who seems less than reasonable. Attilio, can you explain how the equipment setup in the pic functions?

FreshCoffee2

I just spent 20 minutes writing up something that disappeared into cyberspace...... ok frustrating as it is...trying again but in a little less detail: Thanks for your words Kelsey. The destoner is the light grey "floor hopper" and pipe in the middle front of the photo. It works by vacuum extraction. The perspex section half way up the pipe is the port through which the beans can be viewed as they fly up (impressive to watch) into the overhead collection hopper on the RHS. Below the perspex section on the RHS of the pipe you get a sideways view of the large face vacuum gauge that indicates the amount of vacuum you are running (also looks impressive.......when you spend money on eqiument, you want it to look the part  ) The stainless steel apparatus on the LHS of the destoner is the cooler into which the beans fall when they exit hot from the roasting drum. After a suitable cooling period, you open the gate valve and the beans are dropped into the destoner. The vacuum sucks them up (but not hopefully any foreign materials) and travels them up the pipe and into the overhead hopper. You can vary the amount of vacuum to suit. All coffees leave something but there is no doubt that el cheapo beans leave more including coffee beans that dont fit the average "profile" of weight / size and are left behind with the crap. Small roasting contractors that didnt have the knowledge or advice (or budget?) to buy a suitable / integrated destoner with their roasting machine, can buy simple, "small", freestanding aftermarket destoners to add to their eqiupment. Hope that helps 

Kelsey

It does, thanks A - much appreciated! I'd love to come and visit your setup at some point. I don't make it to Canberra often, but occasionally get down to Jindy in winter.

FreshCoffee2

The is always an open invitation to forum participants (as long as they are not industrial spies - serious) to come visit but please give us some notice and be open about your intentions if you have any (the industrial spies amongst you) as we dont like macchiavelians much  ! A very first Crema site sponsor

Kelsey

I'm sure my massive roasting capacity 600g every couple of weeks presents a worrying threat, but I'll try to restrain myself if and when I'm able to visit!

FreshCoffee2

:thumb:

mycuppa

Ironically, the most fascinating piece of equipment in our roastery is the destoner. When people actually see the roaster, it's boring, but they become entranced with the operation of the destoner - seeing the beans shoot up like Willy Wonka's magic chocolate factory seems to amaze people - even though it's a simple vacuum (albeit one that takes an awful lot of time in adjusting to get it correct) Wrestling with the destoner is perhaps my most undesirable task - but that's the price you pay for constantly changing the beans running through the roaster.

C-man

I would imagine the beans would vary a lot in weight?