Advice needed - New to roasting

Seeya Latte

Hi all
Getting ready to order my first batch of greens for my first attempt at roasting (KKTO) and I'm looking to draw on your experiences from when you started roasting.

Hopefully it's just eagerness and not pig-headedness on my part but my initial
preference is to jump in the deep end and start off with a blend (I've mapped out one based on my preferred  tastes but more on the composition later)

For now a simple question... Blend first or Single Origin first up ..,you know... master the craft and familiarise myself with the process and roaster etc first?

I'm eyeing off a variety of  5 beans (what I think will give me the flexibility to go SO or offer the potential for anywhere between a 2 or 5 bean blend ) from Brendan @ Bean Green or Andy's CS starter pack.

Ive been reading up heaps this week and some fascinating insights on Crema,  CS and Sweet Maria's 

Looking forward to getting the customary useful help from those here

Seeya

Koffee_Kosmo

Welcome to the club Seeya  :thumb: The roaster will handle just about anything you roast in it so don't worry about blends or single origins It's technique and blend selection For most blended bean roasts all thats needed is a full 250 deg c pre heat for approx 5 to 10 min Drop beans in your KKTO in and relax as it will do its job without much user input Only reduce heat or burp if needed and, only after rolling first crack For some exotic blends you will be better served with a 5/10 minute stabilising pre roast at thaw to 125 deg c heat setting Then start the roast proper at 250 deg c  at zero time A stabilising pre roast will give all beans equilibrium so they roast evenly and arrive at the crack stages at the same time So the key word is relax and let the roaster do its job KK

Kelsey

As AM would say: KISS! My roasts on the KKTO started to awry once I got overly fussy with the technique: I tried to control the roast with burps and temp changes, etc - the end result was a bunch of really bad roasts. My best results have come from the simplicity of the method. I know I prefer a darker roast, but not too dark. So I need to pull it at the first hint of rolling second crack. Apart from that, I pre-warm and do a 10min pre-roast thaw, burp on first crack, then let it run until rolling second crack. If you decide you want to get more complicated than that, then you need to be able to control, record and replicate variables: same environment, a temp probe and data logger and meticulous recording. Otherwise your changing your technique without data - which is as good as guessing. Keep it simple. The KKTO will take care of the rest.

UNM

Personally I would go SO to start with. Blends can have some beans hit first and second crack at different times due to differences and bean size and density. You will just make it harder for yourself. By all means order multiple beans and do blends on subsequent roasts, but the very first one should be a single so you learn the sights, sounds and smells before adding too many variables. I recommend against the CS starter for practical reasons. 1 You don't know what beans you will be sent. 2 each bean supplied is only 500 grams, or one roast in the TO. You then have to order a further 2.5kg if you want to try the same bean again. 3 the price is not that good unless you add a couple extra bags to bring down shipping cost per kg. Not to say you have to support site sponsors, but they do have some  suitable beans and bean green offer free shipping if you order over $50 (delivery time to you will be much the same as from CS). Take a look at their specials and see if anything looks good. Most green bean suppliers sell by the kg. Four 1kg bags would be a better TO starter than four 500g bags.

Lacehim

I agree with above, I would go a Single Origin first. Try the beangreen $8/kg specials!  At least then if you do stuff it up, you haven't spend a fortune. KKs instruction sheet for the KKTO is pretty good as a guide.  I would do some 300gm roasts first, preheat at 125deg, then drop your beans in and set the timer to 20mins at 250deg. The beans will turn cinnamon in colour, and then brown, you'll get some smoke and hopefully hear the cracks.  Once you hear rolling first crack (FC), you'll start to hear rolling first crack where the snaps become more consistant.  For your first roast I wouldn't bother getting worried about burping (taking the TO off to reduce temp), but you can take a look if you want.  Then after around 3-4mins you'll get second crack (SC), and more smoke, and then RSC.  depending on what you want to roast for you can pull at the first snaps of SC, or leave it for a even darker roast pulling at RSC. Have your cooler ready, turn off the agitator, put your TO somewhere safe (I use the spacer ring) and make sure it's off.  Then pull your pasta pot, and dump the beans into your cooler. For a quick and simple cooler I just used a cardboard box with a hold cut in the top with a colander, and a fan from bunnings for a bathroom that came with a 240v plug.   Can't get any more simple and cheap than that. KK and AM sorted me out when I was having issues.  My advise it KISS & RELAX!  Forget probes, computers.  Make yourself a coffee, put the beans it, sit down and relax. Don't leave your roast at any point!  It's very easy to get distracted and find out all about 3rd crack (just ask Jonty).

Seeya Latte

Thanks for the tips - I like KISS I wouldn't expect nor totally enjoy a set and forget roaster so early on but I do like manual-reliable-simple to use equipment Looks like some interesting pros and cons to each arguement but maybe because of it's ease of use and tolerance levels, there may not be much of a difference between starting off with a SO vs Blend by using the KKTO. I'll go ahead and order up then.

GaryatGala

Is there a third crack? I'm a virgin when it comes to 3 cracks. I'm good at doing the two cracks though  :stir. I suspect the third crack is the divorce of the roasting machine by blowing itself up or the missus giving a crack on the back of the head with a non stick stoneware pan  :pan Agreed , try the Bean green's $8.00. Stick to one bean at a time, you will have back up stock and you won't break the bank by trying a myriad of beans and find out they all behave differently and thus you get flustered and confused. Contact Bean Green to find out which of the specials are easiest to roast as a beginner. Work on one type of bean first til you understand what's going on and you become more confident with each subsequent roast. Select Here is a link to a site i found helpful, just to let you know the fundamentals of roasting and the science behind it without getting too complex in geek talk. http://bootcoffee.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Ruling3_reprint_May05.pdf There are some other helpful articles in the same website.

Brett H

The BeanGreen $8 are just brilliant! They are actually so yummy and if you blow a batch, no tears.  It's easy mate, if you go to light :cold press, if you go too dark: espresso and think Nespresso/Charbucks experience!  Go get em Tiger!!!

Seeya Latte

Did it...First roast on the KKTO today 30% Colombian Supremo 20% Costs Rica Tirrazu 20% Kenyan AA 20% Sumatran Kuda Mas 10% Indian Robusta 650gm yielding 500gm I think I still need to get the second silicon tube and a blanket for better insulation because I think it was losing a bit of heat Jimmied up a 20lt bucket exhaust fan bean cooler as per KK's notes I dunno how it's gonna go in 5 days but what I do know is that me and the two boys had a blast in the shed ... And I reckon that's the main thing Thanks for the help so far I'll report back Seeya

galumay

Thats a complex blend! I feel its easier to learn at first with SO roasts, but each to their own! There is something odd with your numbers, maybe a typo? You say 650g in for 500g out - thats 30% loss of weight which is massive. I roast 550g in for 500g out (roughly) I find 550g is about the perfect size for my KKTO, pretty well allows me to leave it on full power all the way, for around 12 minute 1st crack and 16 min 2nd crack & finish. Anyway welcome to the world of roasting, perhaps the most fun next to actually drinking the coffee in the whole process!

Seeya Latte

Galumay - you're right I threw in 600 but still came out a little over 500gm. I'll try a bit less next time and a SO but I just decided to take on the world first up...maybe it's me and not my attempt at this blend that's complex?

Brett H

Brilliant mate.  G is spot on... That is a complex blend but I understand your reasoning.  I am hanging out to hear how it tastes.  Are you watching Divey??  I think you're next mate...  :stir  :coffee2:

Seeya Latte

Maybe I did stray away a bit from the Kiss principle with this blend but at least I did find myself taking on the other bits of advice and was more carefree than I thought I'd be on my first outing and like G says I was surprised in how much fun there is in the actual process. I also notice that there's a level of excitement in waiting to see what your concoction ends up turning out like. If its no good .... oh well I'll take away any learnings and try something else next time

ericshum

Try cupping it from day 5 to day 7... if the taste is consistent, its probably well rested. I remember rushing into things at times, pulling at shot on the 4th day, and the taste was just not as good. It's sometimes a hit and miss kinda thing. Cupping also helps you gauge if your beans were roasted too dark. The taste of char would be quite obvious. There are some roast profiles which I have posted previously elsewhere which you can follow. I tend to like beans roasted up to (but before) SC. This however is hard to achieve without a logger. As with blending, I would think post-blending is easier and more controllable. You can decide the amount of each SO you want to be putting in the bean and taste how different each combination would be.

Steve_01

Hi I am new to this forum, and new to roasting.  Was put on to it by Jeff@mycuppa. Been in the coffee industry for many years as a coffee machine technician, just new to roasting. I rushed straight into the deep end buying Ethiopian Yirgacheffe and Harrar.  On reflection, I realise I probably should have started with something a bit cheaper, and worked my way up slowly.  Anyway, my question is this; what blends best with ethiopian coffees and why. 

Brett H

on 1354325452:

Hi I am new to this forum, and new to roasting.  Was put on to it by Jeff@mycuppa. Been in the coffee industry for many years as a coffee machine technician, just new to roasting. I rushed straight into the deep end buying Ethiopian Yirgacheffe and Harrar.  On reflection, I realise I probably should have started with something a bit cheaper, and worked my way up slowly.  Anyway, my question is this; what blends best with ethiopian coffees and why.

Hi Steve and a warm welcome to Crema Forum.  The seemingly flippant however appropriate answer is whatever tastes good to you! I currently roast my coffees largely as single origins and then post blend per shot.  this morning I had a half and half of JBM and Honduras COE!!!  I would be trying the same proportions of the Yirg and Harrar personally, but Yirg is often used to give some citrus highlights to a blend ergo.  my humble advice is to try everything's itch an open mind  and tell us what you like.  There are no wrong answers if it tastes good to the drinker!

UNM

There is already at least one blend suggestion thread. Doesn't matter  you are new to roasting, feel free to post there. I reckon a nice Indonesian and maybe a hint of Indian such as Elk Hill or tiger mountain  to give it a bit of kick. I often use 45%45%10% proportions.

XxDavexx

Hi guys this is my first post (besides the welcome thread!). Thought i'd chip in here and share my experience. My family has been in the coffee industry for 5 generations. Eventhough i would be fairly new to roasting (been doing it for 3 years now), i see some interesting perspectives in this thread. I roast 6kg at a time and based on past experiences, i would suggest blending after roasting as different bean varietals have different density, water content, etc. Roasting SO also allows you to do some initial cuppings and get familiar with its characteristics, thus blending becomes more interesting as you try to create a complex taste to your fancy. Usually there is a more or less 20% decrease in weight before and after roast. I guess the best way to learn is just to keep roasting away!

mycuppa

Glad to see you made it here Steve. The answer to your question is not entirely straight forward (or easy). The problem I see with most posts about blending is that people have a tendency to say.......match Origin A with B. Whilst in a general sense, this can be a good starting point, reality is there could be half a dozen different Origin A's available at any time and they may all be quite different in terms of acidity and depending upon how old the post is, it could be from 1, 2 or even 5 crop/seasons ago. I would bet good money my Yirgacheffe is vastly different to Fresh Coffee's Yirgachaffe (and not only just because they are spelled differently) and we would roast them different - so it's really not the same bean and thus what follows is you may be able to do something with Fresh Coffee's Yirg and not with mine, or vice versa. Rule is - don't apply simple rules strictly - use recommendations as a guide only as they are good starting points. Keep an open mind. It is likely your Ethiopian beans are intense, fruity with considerable acid (depending upon your roasting style) so look for low-acid contrasts using Sumatran, PNG, India or Brazil. An interesting take would be some of the arabicas from Monsoon Malabar or Uganda. Of course, there is nothing wrong with enjoying the Ethiopians on their own - why bother blending ! it may not unlock some type of secret amazing flavor

Seeya Latte

Update on my first outing:  30% Colombian Bachue Supremo 20% Costa Rica Tarrazu 20% Kenyan AA Dorman 20% Sumatran Kuda Mas 10% Indian Robusta Overall a good learning experience but some valuable lessons learnt Taste So far the best was at 9 days post roast.... I'm not turfing anything and still going with it to see if it changes again Nice enough taste in milk but not smooth enough

Koffee_Kosmo

Sure is fun  :thumb: Rest / degas time is very important post roast to allow the volatile oils to settle down This rest / degas time can be different for bean type and the growing region also ones tasting pallet can be taken into consideration Rest / degas times will also vary with the depth of the roast level KK

Steve_01

Hello all. I have a question here, hope this will be of interest to someone. I recently bought some Mexican pluma organic, and roasted it at 225 degrees for 19.5 minutes on the Gene Cafe Roaster.  It's one of those 300 gram roasters.  The roast was good, no complaints. My question is this.  How would the same temperature and time compare between a 300 gram roaster, and a 10 kgm batch.  Put  another way, if you roast 300 grams of coffee at 225 degrees for 19.5 minutes, then you roast the same coffee, 10 kilograms of it, at 225 degrees for 19.5 minutes.  Will that roast be the same, darker or lighter? 

FreshCoffee2

No. Your 10 kilo batch roaster would have to have design parameters such that the roast characteristics delivered (by the machine) were identical to that of the 300 gram roaster, for you to be able to exactly duplicate what you get with one roaster, in the other. And even then.........? Generally when you move from one roaster to another, you have to re learn what you thought you knew.