Ponte Vecchio Lusso - advice please?

Moon

Georges Contraband blend Dose - 16.1g Tamp - polish only Single fellini Pour - 25 secs for 20ml Rating - 9.15/10 Good coffee .. only nothing exceptional.

Brett H

Nice work Moony!  Good pics too and clearly you're becoming elitist!  9.15: nothing special  :coffee2:  welcome to the dark-side!!

Moon

on 1409393511:

clearly you're becoming elitist!  9.15: nothing special  :coffee2:  welcome to the dark-side!!

I guess so .... KK's Yirgacheffe that he generously sent me that he'd roasted in his own KKTO roaster set the earlier standard .. and more recently Jonty's home roasted Ethiopian Yirgacheffe and Indian Tiger Mountain that he also most generously sent to me - each rated 9.4 and 9.5/10. Once you hit those lofty standards - when you churn out anything that falls below a 9.2/10 .. it leaves you with the feeling ... gee .. that could have bean so much more  :lamp:  :'( The coffee that I make .. needs to score at least a 9.2/10 to impress me these days .. so I guess that's a yeah .. I am giving in to snobbery when it comes to my coffees. 8/10 is about the lowest I'd want to go .. given the choice.

Brett H

No mate, you're not a Snob... No clear-thinking woman, man or child would surely willing allow themselves to be referred to as sine nobilitate!! "Snobs can through time be found ingratiating themselves with a range of prominent groups

cosmic_couple22

WOW well said BH

Moon

Cheers .. I am a member of the other forum .. so I'm cool with being a coffee snob.  Georges Contraband Dose - 16.1g Tamp - polish only Pour - 20secs for 20ml 2nd extraction for 30ml shot Rating - 9.15/10 Seems the single fellini is a bit quick (20 secs) .. and a double is a bit slow (40 secs) I went for the double after the shot appeared short .. only it was due to the different glass having a wider base. This cup of coffee would suit the masses .. and perhaps Moony, if I wasn't doing a rating .. and simply enjoying it at a Cafe on a lovely Spring day in Melbourne. Good basic coffee .. but lacking a highlight in the flavour dep't. There's not much of the 200g left .. so it better kick into gear soon I reckon. Here's a pic of this baby

Moon

And here's the finished product from my Ponte Vecchio Lusso lever machine. Would you drink this?

Moon

Georges Premium blend Dose - 16.1g Tamp - Polish only Pour - 40 secs for 20ml Rating - 9/10

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Dose - 16.1g Tamp - Polish only Pour - 20 secs for 20ml Rating - 8.9/10

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Piccolo latte (4oz) Dose - 16.1g Tamp - Polish only Pour - 40 secs for 20ml Rating - 9/10 This was a double shot in a smaller glass cup .. and it didn't taste any different Blimey .. it could have at least bean a bit more flavorsome.

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Dose 17.1g Tamp - medium Pour - 20 secs for 19ml Rating - 9.1/10

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Adjusted grind way back and tried a firmer tamp. The flavour was slightly better, only not much difference. I'm having difficulty making an excellent coffee so far using either of Georges beans. Didn't kick goals with mycuppas either .. guess who the finger is pointed at? Yep .. Moony. Hmm? How can I have a Smackdown .. when Moon appears to have lost his mojo? * Even the Pauls Farmhouse Gold milk seems  inferior to what it has bean. I've noticed this over the past few weeks. Cows that are well looked after wouldn't be producing milk all year around. My guess is that the ones used for the Farmhouse are on a break .. and they've substituted an inferior type. It is not as rich and creamy imo. Well .. either that .. or it goes with losing your mojo .. i.e. your taste buds are flapped.. and barely conscious. Haven't tried the Coffee Mio Costa Rica yet .. so there's still hope  :tear hair:

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I'll post some pics of what has bean happening First is the piccolo latta in a 4oz cup.

Moon

Here's a couple more Maybe I'm just getting a bit fussy these days .. as you tend to be with your coffees  :coffee2:

Moon

Georges Premium blend Ahh .. things are looking up - Good morning mojo. It's a beautiful Spring day in Melbourne ;D Dose - 17.2g Tamp - medium Double fellini Pour - 25 secs for 20ml Rating - 9.15/10 Although I don't normally rate my 1st coffee .. I thought I'd share the good news  :thumb: For a while now I have kept the dose and tamp consistent and adjusted the grind to get the pour time about right.. which is between 20-30 secs .. with preference being 25-30 secs. Rather than the 'polish only' tamp, I will now try a medium tamp and adjust the grind to aim at a 25 sec pour for 20ml and see how that goes. I have upped the dose to 17.2g to allow for the firmer tamping of the grinds.

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Dose - 17.2g Tamp - medium Double fellini Pour - 25 secs for 20ml Rating - 9.17/10 A tad mild for a 9.2/10 but still very nice. It's a 14g double shot .. so I  shouldn't need to reduce the milk volume to a piccolo for it to be full-bodied.

Moon

More pics

Kevohere

on 1409895716:

More pics

It may have something to do with the colour reproduction, but that 'piccolo' looks way too light for me! If I was served that, I would send it back. Was your rated score for the espresso or the piccolo? Other than that, keep it coming Moon. Good reading your experiences.

Moon

on 1409896816:

It may have something to do with the colour reproduction, but that 'piccolo' looks way too light for me! Was your rated score for the espresso or the piccolo?

I am having a problem with the lighting to reproduce the actual colour of the coffees - which are always darker than how they appear in the photos. I haven't worked out how to get the photos more accurate.. which I need to do. Yeah .. the piccolo was disappointing, especially seeing it was a double-shot. It tasted as mild as a std sized latte.. which was a bit odd .. seeing the pour seemed ok. The rating would have bean for the piccolo .. as I rarely drink espresso (2 or 3 in the last 5 yrs) .. and have no idea of how to pick the difference between an excellent shot .. and a shidhouse one .. other than the amount of crema.. where looks can be deceiving .. speaking of.. When having a coffee in a Cafe .. my first impression was based on the colour when it came in a glass cup. That changed when what appeared to be a pale colored latte .. which I assumed was going to be weak .. ended up being quite tasty. From then on .. the colour was not a clear indication of how nice the coffee was going to be. I'd definitely take it back if I paid $3.50 - $4 for a coffee in a Cafe .. and it was weak. I have a bit of a reputation for that .. which, on the odd occasion it happens .. can embarrass the person/s I happen to be with at the time. I don't like feeling I'm getting ripped.. as well as believing I'm doing the Cafe a favour by letting them know what they are serving up to their customers is not good enough for the average punter .. let alone .. a coffee connoisseur. I consider myself somewhere in-between. I can also be like this about Pizza. Wherever I go .. I seek out where I can get a good coffee and a good Pizza. Going to a place that you haven't bean too before is always risky .. like trying out new coffee beans. You get your hits .. and misses. In the case of Cafes and Pizza shops .. you get to learn where not to go next time.

Moon

Coffee Mio - Costa Rica - single origin Roast date - ? Dose - 17g Tamp - medium Double fellini Pour - 25 secs for 20ml Held the lever back to slow it down Rating - 9.18/10 Had the same flavour as the coffees made at the Cafe where I purchased the beans .. only not as pronounced. The pour was a tad quick .. so I'll go a little finer grind for the next one. Body and texture has bean the best I've managed to get from the current crop of beans. With a non-assisted 25 or 30 sec pour .. this could break the elusive 9.2/10 barrier. The distinctive flavour of these beans aren't to everyones taste. It is quite unusual.

Moon

Coffee Mio - Costa Rica Dose - 17g Tamp - medium Double fellini Pour - 30 secs for 20ml Rating - 9.1/10 Good pour .. nice crema .. yet can't manage a 9.2 I reckon this is a 9.1/10 coffee .. which doesn't have the X-factor to reach an 'elite' 9.2 I'll keep trying as there are still around 200g left.

Brett H

I'm going to be shot for this but... I've never had a WOW Costa Rican coffee ever.  I was in Townsville recently and Dominion were doing Chemex brews.  Choice of Ethiopian or Costa.  I was brave, I went Costa, I was disappointed yet again.  I know they must be out there and I'm sure I'm doing it wrong but....

Moon

I started my bean journey with Costa Rica beans and stuck with them for ages before trying others. Only found out fairly recently they are known for being mild. Because I prefer the 20ml shot in my lattes, it makes sense to use a smaller cup to concentrate the coffee flavour Seems crazy baby that using a 14g double basket doesn't cut it. It's not like I like my coffees to rock my socks

Moon

Georges Premium - blend Dose - 16.2g Tamp - Light+ Double fellini Pour - 30 secs for 22ml Rating - 9.18/10 As well as the double fellinis to kick the pour off .. I now let the pour go for about 7 secs and do another fellini. This extra fellini certainly produces more crema and adds a little to the shot volume. Lovely coffee, only again, lacking the flavour to give it a 9.2/10 which is the benchmark for an impressive coffee. Although I don't like strongish coffee .. this is just a tad mild, and would suit people who drink multiple coffees during the day without finding themselves climbing walls later in the day due to caffeine intoxication.

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I wondered whether the Farmhouse Gold milk had changed .. so I sent Parmalat an email to ask them if it was the same milk .. or whether the usual Cows were on a break .. and a different milk had been used as a substitute .. due to the milk not seeming as rich and smooth as it had bean over recent weeks. I received a phone call about 3 mins after sending the email .. and the person from CS explained that the Cows don't take breaks and need milking daily to stay healthy. She went on to explain that the Protein levels can vary at certain times of the year which can affect the frothing of the milk .. and flavour can vary due to what the cows are feeding on.  She also pointed out, (not that I didn't know this already) - that we were just coming out of the winter period .. which I took as a time when variations can occur. I should have asked about whether the fat level in the milk also varies? This would explain why the milk hasn't tasted as rich and smooth of late. I would have thought that fat levels would be higher in winter .. yet the idea of Cows producing milk .. is to feed their calves ..  not us .. so if they have their kids in Spring .. then it makes sense that this would be the time when the fat content in their milk would be higher. So .. Moony can't point the finger at the milk being the reason why his coffees are falling short of expectations. Check out the pics

Moon

More pics Gotta love this  :thumb: The 2nd pic is after the shot had been sitting for 60 secs to see if the crema lasted.

Moon

Good news - Finally cracked it for a 9.2/10 .. after using 600g of an 800g lot. That means I still have 200g left to enjoy .. which is good.  :coffee2: It ended up being a combination of dose, tamp and fellini method that did the trick. Grind setting didn't change. Upped the dose which allowed for a slightly firmer tamp, and the change in fellini moves resulted in a larger shot volume. Georges Premium blend Dose - 16.4g Tamp - Light++ Double fellini + another double fellini. Pour - 30 secs for 25ml Rating - 9.2/10 You beauty!  :thumb: This was the latest fellini method 1. Pull lever down 2. Hold for 8 seconds - pre-infusion of grinds 3. Release lever slowly until 1st drips - (2.30 on the clock) 4. Pull lever down fully and release (to 3.00 ) 5. Pull lever down again and release (Double fellini) 6. Let pour run for approx 8 seconds (8-10ml) 7. Repeat 4 & 5 Yeah baby!  8)

Kevohere

Just curious as to your description of the lever position (first drips) in step 3? Am I to assume (I know, that can be dangerous ;D) that 2.30 on the clock is halfway between 2 and 3 o'clock? ie: just above horizontal? Obviously a great result in the cup, so well done! I occasionally do the Fellini method on the Witch when the pour is a bit fast, which happens with the Monsoon no matter how fine the grind. As I said earlier, interesting reading.  :thumb:

Moon

on 1410826798:

Just curious as to your description of the lever position (first drips) in step 3? Am I to assume (I know, that can be dangerous ;D) that 2.30 on the clock is halfway between 2 and 3 o'clock? ie: just above horizontal?

Yes .. although I just made another one and checked it - first drips at 3 o'clock (horizontal). It can go a little higher at times.. up to 2.30

on 1410826798:

I occasionally do the Fellini method on the Witch when the pour is a bit fast, which happens with the Monsoon no matter how fine the grind.

Brett sent me some Monsoon and I had the same problem. Too fast and couldn't slow it down. As others had suggested .. I ended up using it in a blend with a more dense grind which slowed the pour down. I would not use MM again .. unless for a blend, as it does have some very nice flavours to contribute, which was also pointed out by Cremas.

on 1410826798:

As I said earlier, interesting reading.  :thumb:

Cheers Kev. It's a bit different to anything else you get on this forum or over on CS. It is a roller coaster ride where you can be on top of it one day .. and lose it completely the next.  :tearhair:

Kevohere

on 1410828818:

It is a roller coaster ride where you can be on top of it one day .. and lose it completely the next.  :tearhair:

And isn't it just that that makes the coffee "journey" more appealing/interesting/challenging/exciting and at times .... frustrating?  :coffee2:

Moon

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Edit: It is Kev .. keeps us on our toes and up for the challenge .. never knowing what sort of monstrosity we will be producing next. It's a Dr Jeckyll thing  >:D

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I've bean reluctant to purchase more than 300g when trying out different beans in case I don't like them .. and found that by the time I figure out the grind and best method .. I'm just about out to enjoy them. With this last lot, as mentioned, it has taken 600g to finally figure it out .. so when purchasing beans I know I like, I will be purchasing more in future. I had bean mixing them up to make it more interesting for viewers, only this hasn't worked in my favour.

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Georges Premium blend Dose - 16.38g Tamp - Light++ Double fellini x 2 Pour - 30 secs for 25ml Rating - 9.22/10 Increasing the shot volume from 20 to 25ml is working well for my particular taste. Up until these last 2 lattes -  the single extraction for 20ml, although nice and rich, appears to miss out on levels of flavour gained from a longer pour. Seeing the PV Lusso is known for its smaller shot volume, up until now, I have only had the option of a single 20ml shot .. or a 30ml double extraction shot. By going the full second extraction for a 30ml shot .. the last 1/3 of this second extraction adds an over-extracted yucky flavour which has tainted the richness of the more concentrated 20ml shot. By experimenting with the fellini .. I can now get a 25ml shot .. which seems to not sacrifice the richness, yet manages to capture a wider range of flavours that I was previously missing out on. A 25ml shot is now my ideal shot volume. I now need to achieve consistency with this.. which gets back to what Galumay was getting at when he recommended weighing the shot volume? I did try this and found it too difficult when using a lever machine .. as you needed to take the cup away at precisely the right moment .. and the digital scale was updating too quickly for it to be readable. With 2 guesses so far .. I've managed 23ml and 25ml .. and as long as I don't get above say 27ml, where I should probably sink the shot (Quality Control) .. the result in the cup should be up to standard. Guessing the shot volume is tricky, as quite often I've thought it has bean closer to 30ml .. and after measuring, found it to be the desired 20ml. The more crema in the shot .. the more difficult it is to guess where it will settle at. I also put the 2 sugars in the cup first, and have to consider what has bean partially absorbed into the crystals. Yeah .. ok .. sugar  >:D Guilty!

Moon

Ahh  :thumb: Georges Premium blend Dose - 16.5g Tamp - Light++ 2 x Double fellini Pour - 40 secs for 25ml Rating - 9.3/10 Moony is back!  ;D The new fellini method, slightly higher dose and increased shot volume from 20 to 25ml is working a treat. Guessing the shot volume to a tee .. which uses the 2nd double fellini 10 secs after the 1st to allow for the pour to get underway as a continuous flow. The lever position for the 2nd double fellini goes from all the way down @ 5 o'clock to 4 o'clock whereby the pour becomes quicker than the 1st - due to less resistance in the puck .. having already bean well saturated and the water through the grinds having found its pathway. Coffee Heaven is a nice place to be  :angel:

C-man

Now yer talkin

Brett H

Heeeeee's BACK!!!!

Moon

Speaking of being back .. any memorable coffee experiences while you were away, Brett? Coffee Mio - Costa Rica - single origin Dose - 17.2g Tamp - Light++ 2 x double fellini Pour - 35 secs for 25ml Rating - 8.7/10 The double fellinis probably account for about 8 secs of pour time - so the actual pour was about 28 secs Without comparing this rating to those previously, I reckon an 8.7/10 is about right for these beans .. and therefore put this one in the 'B' category. Other than having its own unique flavour .. which is ok according to my taste buds, only it didn't have any characteristics that impress me. The method of extraction, which was the same as for Georges Premium .. seems pretty close to the mark .. unless of course, the beans were over 4 weeks from roasting date .. which, at a guess, is most likely. Perhaps fresher beans may have boosted the rating up a couple of decimal points .. only I doubt these babies would have scored a 9/10 or above - which would put them in the 'A' category. The last lattes of the Georges Premium didn't rate as highly as the 9.3/10 in my last post. That euphoria was short lived .. but it was certainly a blast while it lasted.  8) It certainly is a rollercoaster ride as far as what you end up with in the cup .. so the idea is to savour the times when you manage to crack it for a real beauty.  :thumb: not that you can't enjoy the rest of 'em.  :angel:

Moon

After finishing off the last of the beans .. I decided to go back and purchase a kilo of Sirius Classic from Dave. Sirius Classic (Guatemalan) blend Roasted: Sep 24th (7 days) Dose - 17g Tamp - Light++ Double fellini + a single after it starts pouring Pour - 25ml in 40 secs Rating - 9.2/10 Nice drop this one .. and with a kilo .. plenty of time to fine tune it Nice pour, plenty of crema .. and very tasty. A satisfying cup of coffee.

C-man

That sounds good.