Keeping Coffee Fresh

johnronchi

Hi everyone.. yes im back... amazing what a few words from admin will do!

Although this may be covered in other topics i think is deservs its own section...

Most will agree that we need to keep roasted coffee from being exposed to heat, light and oxygen.. however...

With regard to heat... the general rule seems to be that it should NOT be put in the fridge, just a cool place.  Living in brisbane i though i knew hot but a few weeks ago i went to cairns...  :o that place is HOT and it wasn't even december! They all store the coffee in the fridge, with varying degrees of success... (no pun intended)

What do we think?

lars

Hi John - good to hear from you; actually I'm wondering if anyone really knows the answer on cool vs heat?  For instance, most people say you shouldn't keep coffee in the freezer, but I know a roaster who swears by it, and he has a great product. Does anyone know if there's any research on this? -L

admin

revived for New Year discussion... Admin

Unknown

My boss (in Sydney) won't let me keep coffee in the Fridge or Freezer but I keep it in the freezer.  Its fantastic!  Best aroma and flavour.  However.  It can only be "thawed" once.  Leave it on the bench while you continue to make the coffee or forget it and its ruined.  High risk - but maximum results ;D

kencas

Hi all, Since we're on this thread, how does a machine like the Rancilio Lucy or the Imat Mokita Combi (both with integrated grinders and hoppers) manage to keep the beans fresh when they are only about 6" from a 100-odd degree boiler? I was considering either of these machines as a possible upgrade path, but having read elsewhere that coffee should be kept around room temperature and not to expose it to either hot temperatures or moisture (both elements in and around said machines), how would this effect the coffee and its lifespan (beyond maybe a couple of minutes). Sorry for the left field question, but I can't understand the logic behind these designs. Regards, Ken.

Reschsmooth

Ken, apart from the heat issue, I have also heard that these integrated grinders are difficult to clean and empty, particularly if you wish to try different types of beans. I am sure others can probably shed more enlightened.....ummm...........light. Out of interest, have you compared the price of the equivalent machine without the grinder and then add the cost of a good, separate grinder to the cost of the machines you are looking at? P

kencas

Hello Reschsmooth, I have looked at the pricing on these and compared them to the separate machines.  It was mostly for curiosity's sake that I did, and nearly fell over in the case of the Lucy compared to the Silvia/Rocky ($1400 vs $1200 list) - although I have heard that the Mokita Combi is recognised as the best value package for around $1000 given that it is apparently a Lux grinder (or burr set). I was just curious how the concept could work, given that if you were looking at this level of machine, you obviously appreciate the delicate differences in flavours and textures possible given by the ability of the machine and the grind quality.  So why would you store your coffee in essentially the same box as a heater?   My heart is still on the Silvia/Rocky combo, although to be honest, I am also interested in looking at the new Sunbeam (piccy on link http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/worldregional/australasia/113380).  This machine apparently has dual thermoblocks (one for espresso/hot water, and one for steam), with dual pumps for each thermoblock.  Interesting to see what the thermoblocks are made of, and what the overall machine quality is like.  Supposed to have a commercial size brewing group, handle and filters.  We'll see... Ken.

FreshCoffee2

Hi Ken, I simply wouldn't: a) keep more beans than necessary in the hopper of the grinder and b) leave the machine on all day ad infinitum. Whilst the machines are thermostatically controlled and can be left on all day (while you are there), it is superfluous to leave the thing on all day if you only wanted say, a couple of cups in the morning, one at lunchtime and a couple in the evening...we simply turn off after use, and turn on again later. The machine is only on for a short time each time, add beans as necessary before each use. Regardez, FC.

mattyj

There was a big debate recently about illy coffee, on another website ... i won't go into details, but the main point was that rather than trying to preserve freshness (with inert gasses, storing in the fridge/freezer whatever), our goal should be to consume the coffee before it goes stale, or only buy enough to consume in a week. In my experience, real freshness and preserved freshness are two very different things when it comes to coffee, and they just don't compare on my tongue. With leaving machines on all day, i tend to leave mine on from when my wife leaves for work (6am), to when i leave for work (9 - i live down the road from work), and then if i have a shot after work i won't pull a shot until the machines been on for at least 30mins. It is only a little sunbeam (with a few modifications...), but i've found that the machine is much hotter, and the shots much nicer than when it's only just been turned on. A little tip with thermoblocks to speed the heating bit is to switch it onto steam and let it run for about 5 mins ... superheated thermoblock = superheated machine!

mattyj

On freezing coffee/keeping it in the fridge - have you ever wondered what that moist stuff is covering the surface of anything you take out of the freezer? CONDENSATION! In other words, WATER! The problem with freezing/fridging Roasted coffee is this; after the coffee is roasted it will degas for 24-72 hours letting out up to 3 times its volume in CO2, after that it acts like a sponge (i think a pack of lavazza once (very long time ago) told me that coffee is 'hygroscopic', that is, it absorbs flavours and aromas from the envrionment in which it is stored) and will not only soak up moisture from the air (killing off all those lovely aromas) but tastes from other things in the freezer or fridge (replacing those aromas with hints of last nights takeaway). You only want to add water to coffee when it's finely ground, evenly dosed and distributed, and perfectly tamped, very shortly after you've inserted the portafilter into the grouphead. This is also why you want to drink fresh coffee, because after all of the gas has left the beans and taken all the nice aromas with them, you're left with only bitter notes - hence the need for sugar in most coffee.

Lovey

Hello all, I thought that I'd open up this can of worms again, I apologise for the length of the post. At my current location, I don't have ready access to a roaster (3.5 hours drive)  , which also contributes to the temperature conditions at my house, ie stinking hot in summer and freezing in winter.  I usually get my beans delivered via the internet, with me freezing half of the bag and keeping the other half in a darkened corner of my pantry for immediate use.  I  freeze the beans in one of those snap lid plastic containers, which I think is fairly well air tight.  When the first half runs out, I remove the second jar from the freezer and let it thaw out overnight, with the container sealed, so none of the condensation gets inside.  I haven't had any problems yet, but I'm very new to all this and I probably don't have the most educated palate yet  :-[. I was wondering if anyone could shed any light on Ian's comments about thawing the coffee prior to grinding (I don't know if Ian is with us anymore).  From what I can gather from his post, he seems to grind frozen beans, and puts the remainder back in to the freezer. Is it bad ju-ju to use frozen beans in the grinder?   Are there any problems with thawing out the entire jar after freezing? All the best, Steve