Commercial machine comparison

antiskim

I have started a cafe in acountry location about 1 year ago and inhereted a Rancillio (about 10 years old, S20) we are now running about 18 kg over 5 days p/week after 1 year. My philosophy (which some may find strange) is to start with the basics and not overcapitalize. Through time I kkep introducing new and better products/experiences so we can keep the customers interested.
The old machine is not the best - runs hot, temp changes are large, need to wait too long after teas to get pressue back etc.....
As this is cafe/restaurant biz no 4 for me I have had experience on Cimbali, pavoni, and this rancillio. I am researching which machinme is the best for the biz. As much as I try -
   I have not found any sites where commercial units      are compared and reviewed by people in the business.

They are many domestic sites. Does anyone know of such a site?

At this point I am considering ECM veniziana, wega , brasilia (poss gradisca) and La Marzoco. Can anyone say how a LB mug would would fit under the ECM (whats the height like)..

Cheers

FreshCoffee2

Hi, I will get straight to the point....you appear to require a 3 group machine, my company imports and sells our own brand. They are called Diadema. We have several in busy cafes around Canberra, all doing more than 20 per week, and there is one doing 10 kilos ***per day***within the space of 8 hours only, day in and day out... This is quite an achievement for any single 3 group machine irresective of brand. If you would be interested to talk further I can be contacted by going through the icons underneath my name at LHS of this post. You can also check the machine by looking around in our website. I prefer telephones for doing this,

admin

Just a reminder, in case anyone was worried, the 'trade page' is the one place where we allow (regular contributors) to place ads for their product or service; this is not allowed on any of the other threads, but is acceptable, in moderation, on the trade page. Admin

Unknown

Antiskim, I am a great believer in most brands of commercial machines in the market to be able to accomodate 20 kg of coffee per week. The main difference is not necessarily within the features, but mainly within your service agent's response time and experience in diagnosis and repairing. Your machine's supplier can adjust the boiler temperature and pump pressure of the machine to suit your particular brand and coffee volume, which makes the temp issue less cruciall as a buying factor. In addition, the more experienced the manufacturer is, and the more its machines are adaptable to real conditions,  the more reliable they tend to be. Bezzera is considered to be a reliable unit, mainly due to constant developements over the years. Bezzera was the inventor of the Espresso in the begining of the Century. Barazi is the sole agent for the Bezzera in Australia. You can find lots of information on their commercial machines on: www.barazi.com.au as well as their contact details. Good luck Renzo

Reschsmooth

FC, unfortunately, what you describe is a constant in almost every service industry. For example, with choice of superannuation coming up, I speak to a lot of clients employed by largish firms. They tell me that another advisory group (linked to the current employer super fund undoubtedly) has provided 'free' seminars to staff. The agenda is that the advisory group is 'willing to give up its time' to run the seminars to a captured audience (captured by the existing super fund) with the sub-context that staff should remain in the super fund. Regardless of whether the advice is right or wrong, the end result is that the advice is arguably compromised and the distribution (the advisory firm) and the product manufacturer (the super fund) are inexorably linked, either directly or indirectly. I am sure there are advisory groups owned by product manufacturers which may provide a good service, but you have to question the underlying bias. A coffee roaster distributing free machinary? It ain't free! P

sam_jones

i got one of the first Synesso machines. i am abolutly in love with it. i have used most other brands and none of them can compare. check it out at thier web site if you are interested in the best of the best.

Gonzo

not wishing to be too pickie but: "......i have used most other brands and none of them can compare...."     If you "have used most other brands..." you must be very old and experienced or, one of these types that only spends a couple of weeks with each employer. How cant others compare? There are plenty of good commercial espresso machines that do the job required, properly, when placed in situations that the particular models are suited to, and when driven by operators with the proper expertise. "...check it out at thier web site if you are interested in the best of the best...."   The "best of the best"... Hmm, what constitutes the best of the best...3 boilers instead of 2, 2 instead of 1, a digital readout that tells the operator when the grind is wrong & needs adjusting, gold plated buttons? Even the Australian made (from Australian and imported components) Bo_Ema espresso coffee machine performs excellently (is that a word) when placed in situations that the particular model is suited to in terms of performance required, and when used by skilled operators. And did someone forget to mention the importance of a backup service network in any particular location? How convenient for the cafe operator is it to get synesso backup service in areas not right round the corner from the importers premises? Sick & tired of posts containing biased hearsay from those that might have a vested interest, instead of factual information from properly qualified persons. G.

Reschsmooth

So, all opinion must be 100% accurate, verified and contain no hyperbole? hmmmmm........ ???

Gonzo

Reschsmooth, hmmm, comments like "none can compare", "best of the best", and the best comment yet..."I have used most other brands..." Facts my friend, facts, that's what we want. I think the salient points in my post are "biased hearsay", and "vested interest", and "(non) factual information", from those who dont care that they are "(not) properly qualified" to comment. This is extremely unhelpful to the person making the original enquiry and serves only to confuse by injecting irrelevancies to the discussion. I will admit, its easy for me to say as I have several years actual experience with coffee and machines. Umm, wot's a hyperbole? Does it have anything to do with coffee and machines because if not, I will admit that I am not qualified to comment! ::) G.

sam_jones

yo G! i am sorry for disturbing you with my opinion. my experience dates back for 14 years. i have owned my own cafe for nine of those years. i have owend 7 brands of commercial machines and several brands of grinders. i am the best barista in my city according to competition. i used to be best in canada when i used to compete (but i am too old for that now). i host and judge regional comps. i was a chef before entering the coffee world and have had a stint writing coffee articles for trade magazines and culinary rags. oh ya.. details... faema cimbali nuvo s unic ranchillio la marzz SYNESSO i could tell you more about the synesso and why it is the best of the best. but i am board of catering to your whinny bitchy comments. if you care about quality at all and you want me to help you find out why synesso is better, you will have to ask nicer than that! if anyone else would like more info i will gladly point you in the right direction. and no, i do not have shares in the company i just really like them. cheers, sam www.2percentjazz.com

sam_jones

there seems to be some censorship here. "whinny pregnant dog" should read whinny bitch!

sam_jones

i guess it is coded. read "bi ch" with a T

Gonzo

I think I'll just throw in some of my own hearsay, also tempered by some years experience (but in the appropriate service industry).         Your (misspelled) list of

admin

Hi guys - i know it's a fairly simplistic question to a complicated area (all machines have their plusses and minuses) but wondered if you could give a rating of your favourite (say top 5) commercial machines. I guess this is a question that those with a number of years' experience would want to tackle, and of course i'd be asking for an independent opinion, not related to whichever machines/manufacturers you may currently be involved with. Again I know it's simplistic, but a rating 1-5 (perhaps with a brief comment on each one), would be interesting to those of us who haven't spent years in the industry. -A

admin

One sure way to kill a thread - ask industry professionals to voice an opinion that might be seen as in any way political! -A

FreshCoffee2

Have a heart Admin, it's end of financial year time, and busy busy! :D You are also asking a difficult question. Favourite machines? Every trader would have to go with the machines they import for themselves, and that would be biased! In addition we look at them in two ways only. Do they brew a good coffee and can they be easily tuned (some dont & cant :-[), and how easy / hard are they to service and how reliable are they. We do not look at them from an emotional point of view, and certainly not from the point of view of their "features" or "creature comforts". Further, some manufacturers / brands have various ranges of models depending on what the end user wants to pay. Our own manufacturer (BFC / Diadema...see them at www.cosmorexcoffee.com.au/appliances.htm) has 4 types. The one we sell is the high volume best build type, and for others that want cheapies they make other models that cost less but also, have less capacity. Many end users dont realise this and think that one 2 group machine is "the same" as, or "should be" the same as the next, and when they find one that does not perform according to expectation, say that brand is no good. When in fact it may be that the wrong kind of model has been placed into a venue that required something different. Some brands are "good", but are let down by poor back up service etc. Plus, marketing & "name branding" according to image & perceptions today, is unfortunatly filled with a lot of wank. Therefore, a very difficult question for anyone to answer properly without also supplying a very lengthy book of disclaimers. Regardz, FC.

admin

Fair comment FC - thanks for your thoughts. -A