First experiments with the BZ09 (single boiler) and some questions

Kelsey · October 2011

So I've finally made it home. Even tho it's late-ish (new parent. Anything after 8 is late now) I couldn't resist the lure of playing with my new machine.

First of all, It's clear that only considering the width of the machine was probably an oversight:

W8vQ9N0u

Wouldn't have stopped me tho. ;D

But the main problem really is the lack of a manual. Chris is chasing one up, but still, this German version isn't hugely helpful, even with Borat123's kind help with translation.

First attempt, the grind wasn't coarse enough. Decent crema, short pour and a good puck but lacking slightly in flavour.

I dialed down the grind quite a few notches and got what was a bang-on extraction - about 30ml in 30 seconds and crema all the way through. However, I got a bit of water leakage down the outside of the portafilter. The pressure gauge didn't seem to move tho and I've looked at the pictures on the manual since - the portafilter handle might not have been tight enough. I had it dead centre, the manual has it to the right of centre.

The pressure gauge is now sitting just below '2', even tho the machine is off. It's not resting on the little plastic 'peg'.

Not sure how to proceed until I get some feedback tho.

I've realized what a difference a good tamper makes also. So much easier with the new one, but it's so heavy I accidentally fractured my second puck. I also need to be aware of the dose with this group - the shower screen is low enough that even a couple of ml below the top of the basket is full enough to prevent the portafilter engaging. That's not the one that caused a problem, BTW, I got rid of that one without using it.

All in all, looking forward to laying more tomorrow!

Kelsey · October 2011

Oops. Sorry about the huge image size. I'm only on an iPad ATM until I get into the office again tomorrow.

Kelsey · October 2011

Got an image resizer app. Fixed it.

Lacehim · October 2011

Nice Kelsey, nice and shiny. ;D Make sure your not dosing too high, and are you using a double basket or a single? The only major thing you have to ensure if that that you prime the boiler before you use it, and after you have steamed milk.

Kelsey · October 2011

Thanks Michael! Yeah, I need to figure out how to refine my dose. I'm using a double, not yet ready to try singles. Priming the boiler is just running water through the group head, right? I made sure I did that. No milky coffee yet - tomorrow morning will be my first attempt.

Brett H · October 2011

Spot on with priming mate and ditch the single basket! Buy the time you get a great shot from a single you'll wish it had been a double anyway. Great looking setup mate! Great o catch up today also! Water leakage down the side of the portafilter is only either not locking in far enough, or a hardened or unseated group seal. If you are locking in firmly without wrestling the machine to the floor and it's leaking check the seal. I'm sure Chris will post a new one out to you if needed. As to the stuck gauge just give it a couple days and it should settle down. As Lacheim says, the most important thing is to keep that boiler primed and ENJOY! Call Chris in the morning and he should have more comprehensive answers. Good luck sleeping with all that caffeine coursing thug your veins!!!

Kelsey · October 2011

Great catching up with you too Brett - here's to many more catch ups like it! I reckon I'm just not tightening it enough and you're almost certainly right about the gauge. Sleep may very well be an issue!

Koffee_Kosmo · October 2011

With regards to tamping the correct depth I have a test routine First - tamp to a depth of 8mm - this is normally enough to clear the shower screen when the group handle is locked in Remove and check to see if the coffee puck touched the screen If no contact is observed Add a little more coffee, tamp on top, lock in the group handle again Remove and check to see if the coffee puck touched the screen Repeat up or down as required When you have your correct depth ( that means 1mm to a very light feather touch of the shower screen) Note it on the tamper Note it down as in relative depth in the basket Note it down in your brain cells And if you stick to it you wont go wrong KK

Kelsey · October 2011

Thanks KK, good advice, I'll give it a shot.

Kelsey · October 2011

Ok, for whatever reason, the PF was much easier to lock right-of-centre this morning. The first milk stretching attempt was a bit of a disaster, so much power!!!!. The second attempt went much better, but I'll need a chat with Chris to nail the procedure. Had way, way too much coffee this morning. What I'm loving about this so far is that the variables make such a massive difference compared to the old Sunbeam EM3800. Elements that barely affected the brew now make a huge difference. I can see why people like a Pullman tamper too. Those guide-rings must really help.

Koffee_Kosmo · October 2011

on 1318200548:

Ok, for whatever reason, the PF was much easier to lock right-of-centre this morning. The first milk stretching attempt was a bit of a disaster, so much power!!!!. The second attempt went much better, but I'll need a chat with Chris to nail the procedure. Had way, way too much coffee this morning. What I'm loving about this so far is that the variables make such a massive difference compared to the old Sunbeam EM3800. Elements that barely affected the brew now make a huge difference.

With regards to the group handle The seal in the group head will soften with heat & water is a lubricant So if the rubber is warmer and wetter it will help Steaming Milk Go here on my blog and use this method for steaming milk http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com/2010/11/koffee-komo-method-to-creating-great.html

I can see why people like a Pullman tamper too. Those guide-rings must really help.

Those rings are 2mm apart (just for reference) KK

Kelsey · October 2011

I'll give this a go. I couldn't believe how much power was coming out of that steam wand. Milk everywhere.

Lacehim · October 2011

KKs method if steaming is a great starting place. What does the coffee taste like? That's what counts

I'm only up the road if you feel you need a hand or just want to talk coffee.

Kelsey · October 2011

Thanks Michael, I reckon I'll probably take you up on that soon enough. I'd be interested to get the input of a more experienced palate. Let me know if you're down my end of the coast at any point. I can sometimes get away with skiving off during the day for an hour or so....

As to what it tastes like - Pretty good. Strong. The single origin Kenyan is probably fractionally bitter for my preference and maybe not as 'full' a taste as I'd like? Not sure really, still learning to differentiate the flavours. I think I preferred the SO Cuban I'd been drinking previously, but given that it was on a different machine, it's hard to say. One of the girls at Pioneer had said to me that if I was an espresso drinker (and I have been for years, can't stand a milky coffee) that I should be drinking SO. Being at a fairly juvenile stage of my barista's journey, I took her at her word.... but now I wonder....

UNM · October 2011

Regarding SO vs blend for straight espresso. I could be way off here, feel free to slap me down if so. In Aus at least, most commercial outlets will have an espresso blend that is aimed at milk drinkers. The vast majority of coffee based beverages contain more milk than coffee. Therefore, a straight shot of espresso is not what the blender intended the coffe to be used for (in most cases). Some may be ok, many will not. If you order an SO in a cafe, you can choose one that is known to work well without milk. Blending can produce awesome results and if blending your own, no reason to stick to SO.

Kelsey · October 2011

Thanks UNM, nice to know.

Kelsey · October 2011

My wife drinks it piccolo too - thankfully, as I'm yet to master this thing!

mycuppa · October 2011

regards SO's versus blend and whether one makes a better espresso (no milk).......a much maligned topic...... Unfortunately, there are a lot of half-truths floating about that people don't really understand and then offer up as firm advice (and I'm talking here about the female at Pioneer who gave you that advice). First and foremost, it starts with the bean......some are naturally much higher in acid (think Kenya, many Centrals, some PNG's and a few Ethiopians). Sometimes, the acid in a bean can persist even at darker roasts and certain beans will always perform as a dog when used standalone for espresso. It is generally the higher acid that some people who drink espresso may find unpleasant - but not always. The other factor at play will be the roast level and/or profile - darker and in theory more of the acid has been worked out of the bean. But roast color may not be a true indicator - as an example, a roast that got away from the roaster towards the end could have inconsistent bean development - showing darker exterior but internally it could still have lighter characteristics and indeed hold "acid" waiting to be released. If you enjoy espresso, look for traditional low-acid beans such as Sumatran, Brazil, some South Americans and a few of the Ethiopians. This is not an exhaustive list, but they are common. If you see some Central's featured as SO's, then make sure you ask the Barista beforehand if they are too high in acid to have as an espresso. Some Centrals such as Honduras have a delightful low acid, so please don't think I'm painting the whole CentAm areas as an espresso no-go zone. Your good quality Brazil, Sumatra, Ethiopian combinations may provide you with a more satisfying espresso experience assuming the bean is of good grade, the roast was accurate, grind, dose and extraction all worked to spec. Some blends can make a fabulously complex and layered espresso - if the designer took a balanced approach when creating a blend.

mycuppa · October 2011

And sorry I forgot to add........ UNM is right, roasters do in fact get pulled to the milk and +acid+ side - either by default or other forces at play. Seems there is more of a challenge to create a blend that works through milk as opinion or views of espresso can be very diverse. One very telling point is that many Sumatran farmers are looking to develop their future crops with higher acids to cater for the big North American market.

Kelsey · October 2011

Thanks MyCuppa - no wonder I enjoyed my Sumatran so much. It's seems a pity to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but I guess that's the free market economy in action.

UNM · October 2011

on 1318237937:

And sorry I forgot to add........ UNM is right,

Yeah, I knew that. Nice to have it confirmed though

Maybe not 100% true all of the time, but it'd be a dumb roaster (or ex-roaster) that didn't cater to their target market. What is the percentage of milk Vs non-milk drinks in the Aus cafe business? Anyone know? I'd guess 95%+ milk, but that is just a guess. I like Mexico Yeni Navan as an espresso, although that is North American rather than Central. Also quite happy with both the Costa Ricans I've tried. I actually find most Brazilian beans a bit lacking in something and that is one reason I started trying some basic blends. I don't give a hoot how they taste in milk (my daughter can't tell the difference between Harrar and Monsoon Malabar, so not exactly a critical consumer). This gives me the freedom to experiment with blends that meet my own taste preferences which are probably quite different to others.

Lacehim · October 2011

Hi Kelsey, Read up on temperature surfing. I'm not sure what the difference between a siliva and your machine would be because of the bigger boiler in yours, but it's a good way to keep the temperature consistant over a couple of coffees. Basically wait for the boiler to heat up, the light goes out. It over shoots and you need to wait for it to come down before you pull your shot. A PID would sort all this out, but that can come later when you have the time/cash to do it. I got by with a DMM, which was just placed on the boiler, and even as a temporary solution it can give you can idea what the temps are doing, and when to pull the shot. From memory, my Lucy was around 50 secs from the light going off. Hope you are enjoying playing with your new machine anyway.

Also you mentioned you are getting 30ml in 30secs. That would be a ristretto from a double basket. Is that what your doing? Remember if your worried about the gauge or anything else ask Chris while it's under warrenty. Also as a cleaning routine, give it a water backflush each day after use, and a chemical backflush once a week or fornight depending on use. During the chemical clean you can do the group handles, baskets and shower screen too. You might already know this stuff, but best to let you know anyway.

UNM · October 2011

on 1318328313:

A PID would sort all this out, but that can come later when you have the time/cash to do it. I got by with a DMM, which was just placed on the boiler, and even as a temporary solution it can give you can idea what the temps are doing, and when to pull the shot. From memory, my Lucy was around 50 secs from the light going off.

I added a PID to my gaggia for less than the cost of adding temp monitoring with a DMM. Now I wish I knew about the Arduino and TC4 board at the time I got the PID, but it cost me around AU$40 all up (PID/themocouple/SSR). If I already owned a DMM with thermocouple, would have been a different matter. Adding PID control doesn't necessarily invalidate the warranty, as the supplier is still bound by legal responsibilities to rectify any defects that occur which would be warrantable. Once you have been inside the machine though, it becomes harder to know if a fault was caused by something you did, or not. One thought that MIGHT be worth pursuing - ask the supplier (Chris?) if they would carry out, or validate, the PID installation as and when you have the money for necessary parts. That way you keep warranty, get a better machine and everyone is happy that they know where they stand. Might cost something up front, but avoid many potential problems later. I'm not sure exactly how your machine behaves relative to mine as the E-61 head will be very different to my big hunk of brass direct coupled to a (tiny) aluminium boiler. I'd go to the aeropress rather than a Gaggia with stock thermostats though as the PID really brought it to life. With your machine, I'd be seriously tempted to go Arduino/TC4/LCD/SSR even though it costs more (maybe $70 for parts) - but then I used to be a geek once upon a time. Just being able to reprogram or datalog your espresso machine through a USB interface has a certain cachet. With the E-61 head you could monitor/log temp there too and potentially on the way through the P/F with a bead thermocouple in your 'scace type device' food for thought, or maybe the other way round

Brett H · October 2011

Man you guys are hardcore! He's had the machine 2 days and you've got him ripping the covers off and adding a supercharger, blowers, extractors and running it on nitrous via the Internet. Cool! Seriously, how would a PID help stabilize this particular machine with it's existing components? There are elements in the group for thermal stability, a 1.5l boiler (what are the other internals OPV, Pressurestat?)? I'm only asking because I would have thought this a far more temperature stable machine than a Silvia and I don't understand and I would like to. Izzo has a HX that is PID'd if I'm not mistaken and I've always wondered if this was counter-intuitive?

UNM · October 2011

on 1318333065:

Man you guys are hardcore! He's had the machine 2 days and you've got him ripping the covers off and adding a supercharger, blowers, extractors and running it on nitrous via the Internet. Cool!

If it exists, it must be tinkered with.

on 1318333065:

Seriously, how would a PID help stabilize this particular machine with it's existing components? There are elements in the group for thermal stability, a 1.5l boiler (what are the other internals OPV, Pressurestat?)? I'm only asking because I would have thought this a far more temperature stable machine than a Silvia and I don't understand and I would like to. Izzo has a HX that is PID'd if I'm not mistaken and I've always wondered if this was counter-intuitive?

Don't know the machines. I could well be talking crap, which is why I clarified my environment which is quite different. Of course if you go Arduino, it takes 1-2 mins to reprogram as a simple on/off at set threshold with cool display if you prefer to avoid PID. Did I mention you can add a WiFi interface - more secure than through the internet. What I do know from an owner on another forum is that one (and possibly main) benefit of the PID on the Izzo HX is the ability to easily change temp to suit different beans/roasts/ages. So not adding a whole lot more than a fancy display and access to the pstat adjustment. No reason why a PID on an HX can't work to provide adjustability and reduce deadband. An amateur adding a PID to an HX is likely to cause as many problems as it solves. I wouldn't do it to an HX without being willing to invest a lot of time in tuning. I thought this machine was a single boiler? Edit - just checked thread title. D'Oh, of course it is.

Lacehim · October 2011

Ahh didn't realise it had all that BH. No wonder he bought that over the ECM ! :o Never seen a BZ09 before myself. I thought it had a boiler just a little bit bigger than a Silvia.

At 1.5lt should be stable enough! ;D No wonder steaming has been an issue. Getting used to good steam pressure after the little Sunbeam might take a while. As far as I know BH a PID just keeps the temperature stable at a preset temp. I suppose this would allow for fine tuning the temperature at the group. I dare say most folk wouldn't notice the different. For the small boiler machines like the silvia, lelit it does help. I would imagine that Kelsey would still have to let the machine recover slightly before pulling the next shot though. Not too long, probably wait till the boiler light goes off. Kelsey. To practice your milk technique just put some cold water in a jug to the same level as your milk, put a tiny drop of dishwashing detergent (the green stuff ya wash the dishes with when the dishwasher is broke). Great for practicing and saves $$$

Lacehim · October 2011

on 1318334406:

If it exists, it must be tinkered with.

Agreed ;D I love to "fix" things too...

UNM · October 2011

on 1318365139:

Thus again, size matters as there is usually much better thermal stability in a 9L or 4L or 1L boiler than in a 300ml :D

Perhaps I need some form of size enhancement. Mine is about 120ml :-[ But then there is a big hunk of brass, decent heater and water inlet is at the bottom. For one double shot with a 30 min rest period, works fine. Must get back to working on the Azkoyen though - 9l would be nice to get up and running.

Kelsey · October 2011

Sorry for the delay, been a crap day.

The boiler, unfortunately, is not quite that big - but I know why everyone thinks it is. The first search result in Google says 1.5 litres. The manual says 500ml. So definitely enough for some temperature fluctuation. It's 40% larger than the Silvia's boiler and has heating probes in the grouphead. While not as stable as an HX by any means or something with a large boiler, along with the sturdy construction these factors are why I chose the BZ09 in the first place. Now I'll try for some more specific replies: @Lacehim - I think you're right, I'll need to do some temperature surfing to figure out the optimal timing for this machine. As to the actual volume, I need to get a measuring glass, but I'm getting approximately 60ml in 30 seconds from a double, when I get it right. I'm going into two glasses with that. I'm REALLY going to have to practice my milk stretching. I'm using KK's technique, but there's just so much steam that I'm getting foam that's too stiff. I know his tutorial says to use the full power but I think I might have to dial it back a little. @AngerManagement, @UNM - I have a weakness for anything technical and data related, so UNM's wifi'd PID datalogger sounds pretty awesome. I've also been looking for an excuse to play around with arudino for a while. But..... I also think I need to understand the 'foundations' of what I'm doing here. If I understand what the machine's doing at any given point and can work within its unmodified framework, then I'll have a true understanding of the process. Which is at least partly the point of doing all this! @Brett H - It's got an OPV, not sure what a pressurestat is - Chris sent over the manual, but it's still not the most informative bit of literature on the planet..... :D Tried you Indian/PNG blend today BTW - lovely, lovely brew with a ton of crema. Thanks again for that!! --- My main concerns are now cleaning and milk steaming process. CLEANING - @lacehim - Backflush daily? That often? MILK - Reason the first (re: proper procedure and element-burn-out-nerves) The manual says to: 1) Turn on the steam button, the red steam light and the orange boiler light will go on 2) Open the steam tap and let out some water (about 10 secs) for the steam volume to expand, then close the tap 3) Wait until the orange boiler light goes out 4) Steam merrily 5) After steaming, open the tap again quickly to clean 6) Turn off steam 7) Prime boiler by running water through the group. The manual actually says to do this via pumping water through the steam wand, but since the 'brew' switch is hit either way I reckon this doesn't matter. Does this seem like a 'normal' procedure? A fair amount of water is discharged during these 10 seconds. Clearly not 500ml tho, so I assume the boiler's not in any danger of burning out its element?

Lacehim · October 2011

With my silvia & San Marino I backflushed daily. ie with the blind filter in, no chemicals. Just a water flush. Then every 1 or 2 weeks a chemical flush with backflush cleaner. This machine looks like he has a 3 way? Is that correct anyone? Is there any reason for Kelsey shouldn't be backflushing this machine? I've personally backflushed every machine I've owned with a 3 way with no ill effects.

Also with my silvia I used to prime the boiler using the steam wand just after I turned it on. Then after pulling a shot I would then steam my milk. Then I would wipe the wand, and turn the steam on into a spare jug, and hit the hot water button. That would fill the boiler back up and also cleans out the want. turn off the hot water, and close the steam tap. Your all primed for your next coffee!

Off to make woodfired pizza. Mmmm

Kelsey · October 2011

My ear?!?! Now I'm thoroughly confused!

frame

Howdy, Stranger!

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

First experiments with the BZ09 (single boiler) and some questions

Comments

foot

Policies

Social

frame

Howdy, Stranger!

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Categories

In this Discussion

First experiments with the BZ09 (single boiler) and some questions

Comments

foot

Policies

Social