New machine suggestions please

derrilex · November 2011

Hi all. Well as a long time suffer..err I mean user of a 6910, I am finally absolutley sick to death of the bloody thing. I was just in the process of making a brew and the steam side starting playing up for the 100 th time. I'll admit it, I lost it. :tearhair: I turned the steam off, put the jug down and punched the thing right in the face. Felt great but my hand is a bit sore now. It has served me very well though and should have died a year ago. It has made 50 - 60 milk based coffees for the last 2.5 years so I guess I cant complain. Thats about $ 25 000 worth of coffe at a retail level. I had my eye on a BZ99s on fleabay not long ago but I missed it. My requirements are

1. tough as old boots
2. simple to service and work on
3. not a toy
4. not a BDB - not proven yet and still a appliance in my eyes so far. I want street cred.
5. must steam like a mother
6. good parts and service back up.
7. $ 2500.00 budget for machine and grinder

I'm still leaning towards a new BZ99 as Ive been told they are just under the 2 k mark. Any other suggestions from the good people out there. Oh, AM, you are most welcome to take the 6910 when the time comes. Please give it a thrashing for me or strip it parts like it deserves.

Cheers, Alex.

Lacehim · November 2011

where are you derrilex? Avoid ebay if you don't like suprises or you like to rebuild em. ;D

derrilex · November 2011

I'm in Brisbane and only 10 mins away from Barazi at coopers plains. I just tried to call them but no joy. I do see that they have a 5 year old BZ02 for $ 1250. ??

Brett H · November 2011

I have the feeling Chris is still in Italy but if you call Monday no doubt someone will answer your call. I am the proud owner of a BFC/Diadema but love the Bezzeras also. You may need to stretch your budget to access the top end like Gea or Domus. I'm sure Merlos would come in close to your budget with a Giotto so they'd be worth a visit also. Avoid the La Cuarda at Merlos I'm reliably informed (i won't say any more about that because I've never owned one).

Koffee_Kosmo · November 2011

on 1320466217:

I'm in Brisbane and only 10 mins away from Barazi at coopers plains. I just tried to call them but no joy. I do see that they have a 5 year old BZ02 for $ 1250. ??

Barazi do not open Saturday unless its by arrangement BZ99 is just under 2K new I prefer the BZ35 on your requirements Or a used BZ40 They do have a few pre loved machines traded in on new models Chris is due back from Italy on Monday 7th. Nov KK

derrilex · November 2011

Cool, thanks everyone. Some research to do - powered by short blacks.

beanflying · November 2011

If Greg Pullman still has it the Minore 3 is an excellent buy. I will vouch for how he looks after his gear will be just as described.

soloespresso · November 2011

on 1320471162:

If Greg Pullman still has it the Minore 3 is an excellent buy. I will vouch for how he looks after his gear will be just as described.

2nd, or 3rd it... a double boiler for close to rrp of the bdb... tasty.

Lacehim · November 2011

Or, time for something different? A Ponte Vecchio Lusso. electrically it's as simple as. no backflushing, no noise. forget worrying about an OPV, it doesn't have one or a pump! Simple to service and work on! Ok the building quality isn't perfect, but Aussie support is good with Sorrentina Coffee and it works, steams great, it's made in Italy, not china. $1500 delivered. So that leaves ya $1000 for a grinder.

derrilex · November 2011

Mmm, not at the moment. I'm keen on good coffee but I think a lever, for me, is one of those things one has as a second or third machine to fool around on on a rainy day.

askthecoffeeguy · November 2011

I used to own a BZ99 and I can vouch for it being a very solid and reliable machine capable of producing great coffee with plenty of steam power I also owned a Domus Galatea and whilst I loved the machine I couldn't throw it in the trailer with the generator and take it camping - and whilst I particularly loved the manual preinfusion - I did find the machine a bit sensitive to tamp and grind I also do a bit of catering occasionally which I why I settled upon a Rancillio S27 commercial single boiler machine from the bay of evil - its ugly as sin but built like a truck and I've knocked out 200 coffees in a day with it (but boy oh boy I felt it afterwards - its harder than working!) And yep I'll be taking the Rancilio and the generator with me when I go camping with family and mates over new years ! And for the record I'm a big fan of Bezzera coffee machines - the build quality speaks for itself and there's a broad enough range to suit every palate and possible usage IMHO! Cheers, Pat

derrilex · November 2011

The expobar is a beautiful thing but a new BZ99s is still very much in the running. I will have to go and view one first hand I think. Choosing a suitable grinder for either machine will be the hardest task I think. I dont know my grinders too well at all and it seems the list is endless, the prices are high and everyone has the favorite. Difficult decisions ahead.

WotB · November 2011

Do you absolutely need a new machine? Would a well looked after second hand one suffice?

Brett H · November 2011

on 1320543520:

The expobar is a beautiful thing but a new BZ99s is still very much in the running. I will have to go and view one first hand I think. Choosing a suitable grinder for either machine will be the hardest task I think. I dont know my grinders too well at all and it seems the list is endless, the prices are high and everyone has the favorite. Difficult decisions ahead.

The K3 push is worth a look but just beware, the one I saw had a lot of play in the collar so it's still Mr Rocky as a likely replacement for Mr Lux at school. I had considered the Smart because it's cheap but I need something more robust because it is not just me that uses it.

Brett H · November 2011

on 1320546108:

Do you absolutely need a new machine? Would a well looked after second hand one suffice?

If you are like me and are comforted by a returns policy then Baratzi second hand machines are great value. If you are happy grabbing a box-o-bits off eBay and self-servicing then I'm jealous and take my hat off to you. The Pullman Expobar would be my first option in a similar position.

Brett H · November 2011

on 1320547843:

GRINDERS: I have a few that might do... A BZ02 or an Rossi RR45 or even a NS MDXA But for home use the Eureka or the Vario are small and doserless and what I would suggest. I would go the Rocky over a K3 for many reasons.... Both do the job, but still the Rocky :-) Then again it's your choice... As to machine, the Minore III is up there in functionality and looks and is not out of place in the kitchen as neither an appliance or extreme SS bling AM

Isn't it funny how we all tend to agree once commercial affiliations are placed to the background. I agree 100% AM! The Eureka Mignon I played with was solid, pretty/blingy yet under understated enough to not overwhelm the machine/kitchen. I've not been lucky enough to play with the for any length of time but google consistently sings it's praises a testifies to it's longevity. They look pretty cool and robust so would be worth a play.

Lacehim · November 2011

on 1320526908:

Mmm, not at the moment. I'm keen on good coffee but I think a lever, for me, is one of those things one has as a second or third machine to fool around on on a rainy day.

I use mine every day. Easy to use, temp stable and you can leave it on all day. I've made about 8 milk based drinks In a row for a party. It was fantastic. 2 group also. Steams great! It's certainly not a toy!

derrilex · November 2011

on 1320572514:

I use mine every day. Easy to use, temp stable and you can leave it on all day. I've made about 8 milk based drinks In a row for a party. It was fantastic. 2 group also. Steams great! It's certainly not a toy!

Sorry if I gave the impression that it was a toy - not at all, just not for me.

I see the rocky for sale from jet black for under 5 hunge, which is about all thats in the grinder budget so unless there is something better for the dollars it looks like it will get the nod. Better side of Brisbane ? who are you trying to kid AM :D We all know the inner west is where its at ;D Appreciate the play date offer too but work is mental at the moment and its a lonnnnnggggggg way away. Then again, I'm the boss so you never know. Ive touched base with Greg re the minore and will have made a decision by tomorrow night. It would blend in with the stainless kitchen like , well, part of the furniture. Isnt a BZ02 a espresso machine not a grinder ? What sort of $$ are the vario and eureka ?

derrilex · November 2011

$ 650 and $ 700 respectively. A little too much unfortunatley

derrilex · November 2011

Finger fault - love 15. :D Yes indeed, getting the procurement department on side is quite a challenge sometimes.

Seeya Latte · November 2011

From memory, a new NS Oscar and a grinder come in way under $2K from memory (?). Good price for a HX Food for thought

derrilex · November 2011

I forgot about the oscar. Great, more research :D. I'm more confused than ever now. Dual boiler or hx ????? I'm leaning towards HX as it makes more sense to me. Ive talked to Chris at Bezerra and I'm going over tomorrow to look at at BZ 99s, I just cant get them out of my head. I'm very much a "whats in the cup" type and dont care for anything fancy, any fancy features or widgets or the science behind the coffee - hell, Ive never even adjusted the brew temp on the 6910, I just want good coffee and a animal of a machine that delivers it day in day out with no fuss for years to come. The choices out there are doing my head in. :'(

mycuppa · November 2011

I rarely comment about machines and equipment but always seem to find myself using a big range of gear one way or the other, whether it's friends or family bringing in something in for me to look at or to help them use it, or even show them how to clean it properly.....etc. Whilst my next statement is going to inflame a lot of people as there are many who become, how do I say it, overly zealous about their chosen gear (and rightly so, there is nothing wrong with being passionate or supporting your chosen kit). However, IMHO the differences in the equipment are not as great (or significant) as some people would lead you to believe. There is a fair amount of exaggeration in content all over the web - whether this is positive or negative. I've even seen comments by vendors on other forums calling some machines "boat anchors". Sometimes the differences in the machine are internal build quality and many people never see this aspect during the shopping experience. Reality, as I've found it, is that most equipment can make an acceptable cup of coffee once you understand how to drive it. Some equipment can be learned easier than others (far more forgiving) and some equipment may need interesting gymnastics in workaround solutions - BUT STILL GENERATE A NICE CUP. The whole debate about DB's versus HX's, boiler sizes, perceived temperature stability, etc. is all a bit academic really as the driver using the grinder and dosing can generate negative results very easily on equipment having allegedly close to perfect extraction properties. I always tell my friends that bean selection and barista technique (importantly the grinder) mean more than rotary pumps, thermosyphon, flow restrictors, gauge and finish of the stainless. Best advice is do some research to understand the specs and reliability aspects. Then go use the ones in your short-list. When testing a machine, focus closely on how easy it can be to make great extractions back to back. If you find yourself struggling to get a decent shot, then ask yourself why ? When you find that machine that is easy to use and your consistency is better/best, it is the perfect machine for you. Take the recommendations of internet content, but don't let it blind you on the usability of machine re: creating consistent cups as this is what enjoying coffee is about. A friend of mine recently back-traded his $3K bling for something half the price because it was easier for him to get a decent shot.

Koffee_Kosmo · November 2011

Yep I have used many machines and have found that the nut behind the wheel is or should be in control The main thing is to look after your equipment, Learn how to use it, and don't blame the machine for user error Having said that I will always say that the choice of grinder can lift your coffee journey to great heights It took me 4 upgrade jumps in grinder to get to the stage I am at, so choose wisely KK

derrilex · November 2011

Yes well said indeed mycuppa. Ive been chatting with Greg Pullman who has very kindly put up with some ridiculous questions on my part and has also been very generous and forthcoming with info and opinions. It hasnt made it any easier for a decision but I am enlighted a bit more. Cheers to you Greg. Thank you, and to all of you offering advice, I'm sure you have all been in my position before.

beanflying · November 2011

on 1320669079:

I'm sure you have all been in my position before.

A long time ago I was in that prediciment, found the easiest solution was just to buy another one and another and another ..... ;D And to right in what Jeff said, a good mate of mine has one of the little Breville boiler machines (glorified stovetop). Gave him a spare hand grinder and got him buying fresh beans then made some coffees with him. Now putting a lot of cafes to shame and I am more than happy to have a coffee from it.

derrilex · November 2011

Well, its done. One shiny new BZ99s will grace my kitchen bench tomorrow. What a relief, its over - for now. Cheers everyone for the input and thanks to Chris at Bezerra.

derrilex · November 2011

Ahhh the grinder , well thats a different storey, which I suspect is going to no less painful. Bezerra reccomend the BB05 which is $ 495. Until I decide the old 480 will have to do. Cant be any worse the the 6910

derrilex · November 2011

It looks ok to me but I know SFA about grinders apart from shimming the 480. Whats the BB02 ? doserless ? How old ? How much moolah are you asking for it ?

Brett H · November 2011

Congratulations on a great bit of kit from a great retailer. Now let's talk grinders.... AM... PM time!

Koffee_Kosmo · November 2011

Yes congratulations on the new Bezzera BZ99 machine ;D It looks a lot like mine, just a little smaller KK

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