Solar Power for the Home..

derrilex · May 2012

http://www.truevaluesolar.com.au/qld-specials/?gclid=CI-P_7yiqbACFU-HpAodV1YiVQ So a quick google of the one of the major and persisant providers. Keep the inverter ( which is the main cost I'm led to believe) and x 3 the panels to 24 @ 190 to give 4.5 KW, which wont x 3 the price because you only pay for 1 inverter. Ahhh, they are all just bloody carpet salesmen anyway and the product is just going to get cheaper and better quality so I'm not in any rush to jump in

UNM · May 2012

and don't forget no pfit (premium feed in tarrif) for new installs, or if you move house. also, usually a 5kw inverter would best run with 6kw or more panels. oh, there are now spray on paint photoelectric options in development. all clear as mud?

derrilex · May 2012

Yep, like I said, I wont be rushing into anything. Incentives will come back with a vengence as soon as the red witch is displaced and the country has some money again. Then again, give people incentives and the suppliers jack the price to profit. AM, chuck that shit job and get into solar installs with me 8) 8) :rofl:

derrilex · May 2012

Nah, all your work is done on the ground with the inverter hook up. Perfect for sipping that gloria jeans expresso (sic) 8)

derrilex · May 2012

Scary thing is, unless a solar approved sparky one cant install anything. The quality of installs that Ive seen has been truly shite. Bad workmanship that is normally hidden in a roof cavity, crap bracketry and components, bad or non existant flashing for any roof pennos'. I seriously doubt the ability of most sparkies to do a decent install. They should stick to terminating and leave the component install to those who use more than a pair of pliers and a #2 phillips to earn a living :rofl:

Lwowiak · May 2012

I have dealt with a few companies doing installs. They use: (Their quote not mine) Two roof monkeys to do the install [cheaper rate per hour]. A sparky comes around to check the wiring and do the termination and hookup. A qualified electrician is only needed for termination. On many building sites, "Cable monkeys" are used to pull in and lay cable. The actual termination is done by a suitably qualified electrician. One way to keep labour costs down. Also, it was a good way for apprentices to learn the ropes.

derrilex · May 2012

The sparkies that did next door had to come back twice to rectify wiring faults. Not termination issues but bad work practice. Cables laid drooping between bearers and pulled over the sharp edges of metail tie down brackets, not a clip in site etc... just plain old crap workmanship. The use of roof monkeys says it all really. Cutting costs. With all the discounting something has to give and it will probably end up like the insulation debarcle. The neighbour wasn't home when they were doing it and so thought they could get away with it. And they probably do on 80% of jobs.

Brett H · May 2012

on 1338431869:

Yep, like I said, I wont be rushing into anything. Incentives will come back with a vengence as soon as the red witch is displaced and the country has some money again. Then again, give people incentives and the suppliers jack the price to profit. AM, chuck that shit job and get into solar installs with me 8) 8) :rofl:

Oh shite... does this mean that misogynistic imbecile Abbott could be PM? Surely not... What bout Turnbull? What happened to politicians being statesman like (gender neutral term)? We've got Abbotts Mini-me in QLD which is why we are all interested in solar. There'll be no infrastructure up here soon!

Brett H · May 2012

on 1338437983:

The sparkies that did next door had to come back twice to rectify wiring faults. Not termination issues but bad work practice. Cables laid drooping between bearers and pulled over the sharp edges of metail tie down brackets, not a clip in site etc... just plain old crap workmanship. The use of roof monkeys says it all really. Cutting costs. With all the discounting something has to give and it will probably end up like the insulation debarcle. The neighbour wasn't home when they were doing it and so thought they could get away with it. And they probably do on 80% of jobs.

I always follow em around and offer em coffee and to help dig the hole... Especially if they're working in the roof!

derrilex · May 2012

Ditto. I do as much of my sparkies job as I can. All the rough in, run all the cable ( as supplied by them), cut all the holes etc for gpo's and lights etc... so all he has to do is a quick inspection of the cable runs and terminate. As long as they dont count the after job coffee as time applied, I'm generally happy ;D

derrilex · May 2012

on 1338444159:

Oh shite... does this mean that misogynistic imbecile Abbott could be PM? Surely not... What bout Turnbull? What happened to politicians being statesman like (gender neutral term)? We've got Abbotts Mini-me in QLD which is why we are all interested in solar. There'll be no infrastructure up here soon!

As opposed to the tons of it that Anna built ? :rofl:

Lacehim · May 2012

:rofl: Love this thread. My original install was 1KW and a 1.2KW inverter back in the $8k rebate days. The monkeys that installed the panels on the roof of my 2 storey house didn't use any safety equipment, and as I sat in my house playing with the kids and drinking a nice coffee, screw drivers, and "bits" kept falling off the roof, and hitting the patio. It was a bit concerning, and I did ask, are you sure that safe, but a body didn't falll off, and I suppose I should feel lucky for that fact. I won't be using that company again or recommending them to anyone! It was cheap, but it just didn't do much for my bill with a 21KW aircon hooked up. :laugh: 1/4 bill for us is around $700 in summer! New quote is for 5.6KW 28x200W Suntech panels, and a Macsolar 5KW Inverter. Maybe because I've already got a system installed my solar rebate will be lower? On this quote just over $3000 for 116 recs. What did everyone else get? I'll be getting a few more quotes next week and asking many questions.

I've already got the net meter installed with my 1KW system, so I'm assuming that my feed in tarrif won't be effected. I might have to ask that question. Anyway if my bill was smaller it would be saving me money wouldn't it and I would be happy. The system would still pay for itself considering we are paying nearly $2000 a year in power bills and power is going up and up and up. I'm home all day which probably won't help, but that's not going to change for a few years yet.

Springbok · June 2012

Oh Boy - all very confusing but then I look at my Electricity bill and cringe - a friend has just had her bill and she had to pay all of $15 ( albeit a Townhouse). So whats the verdict anyone? Its not going to get cheaper, can anyone make a recommendation?

Lacehim · June 2012

on 1338714460:

So whats the verdict anyone?

It's not getting cheaper, and a $14,000 system that I'm having put in will pay for itself within roughly 6 years according to calculations done by a friend and that doesn't take into account price increases. He's a mortgage broker, but has branched out into finance for solar. Even if the feed in tariff is reduced, getting a tiny bill is better than a big one.

on 1338719536:

Check the reg with care... 1: Once over 5Kw there are some issues that you have to address as no longer considers a private matter and is potentially commercial. Thus tax implications and impact on any buy back rates.

The Inverter is 5Kw so I won't be going over that, so I'm safe. Energex won't allow over 5Kw in a domestic house as far as I know. Not sure why the extra .6Kw? I think the extra might be to boost power during low light, and account for any loss during the conversion process to the grid, I don't know. I just hope he knows! :rofl: He was also talking AC & DC? I'm no sparky so really it's all black magic to me.

on 1338719536:

2: Am I reading it correct that you have already had the early 1Kva system and still able to get rebates on your next lot ??? I was of the understanding that the rebate was a once off ?

You are reading correct. It's one of the reasons I haven't done it sooner because I thought it would cost me heaps more because I had already had the $8,000 rebate. I don't get any rebates on the inverter, just on the extra panels, so, 4.6kw which are in the form of recs sold to the company I'm buying the solar from.

on 1338719536:

3: If you can get 5.6Kva and a 5Kw inverter for $3K then that is a massive savings...

Sorry AM, I might not have explained it right. The system is $20,000, but the 3k reduction is from selling the recs to them. I got a further discounts because we are paying it outright & the family have already bought 2 systems from them. Buying bulk help I suppose.

My neighbour's spreadsheet said my system would get a return on investment of around 17%! Try getting that from any normal, low risk investment. It does assume alot, like the fact that I'm not home much during the day (which I am), and that the feed in tariff remains the same, but even so it's probably better than having my money in the bank earning 4% interest (which I have to pay tax on!!!!) If your thinking of financing your solar and live in SE QLD I can pass on my neighbours website address and phone number. Just PM me. He's got heaps of info and can show you how it will all work.

Jonty · June 2012

Lacehim, ROIs of 17-22% in solar are not uncommon. I still say it is the best investment I have made in the past 5yrs. Got my bill on Thursday and I am 499 in credit, thats with two power bills and a gas bill. What I love with Energy Australia is that both gas and power are in the one account. So one steals from the others credit

And with the bill on Thursday also came a letter to explain gas and power are going up again. I love my 60 cent feed in tariff I receive for every kw/hr I put to the grid. So for a 3.1Kw system, the last 2 bills (6 months) I have fed 1770kw to the grid @ 60 cents to my account.. BONUS. Plus the power I have used during the day I haven't had to pay for.. BONUS. 8.5K for the system and payback is looking at just under 5yrs and with every increase that time period just reduces.... So springbok, depends on your state and what Julia is doing also :pan Good luck with your decision but I know which side of the fence I sit on

greenman · June 2012

after much pondering we finally signed up for a solar system last week, we have gone for a 2.5kw (10 panels) with a 3.6kw Aurora inverter allowing us to add extra panels at a later date if required. The feed in tariff in Perth is only 7c so we thought we would go for this size system and guage our savings over the next 12 months. Fingers crossed that the size of our power bills will diminish markedly

Koffee_Kosmo · June 2012

I have a 1.5 kw system with its maximum 8 panels We also have solar hot water & gas stove and hotplates Not sure if we are big users of power but our bills are in the range of $300 to $400 per qtr in a 4 adult home KK

Lacehim · June 2012

I found out that Macsolar is made by the same company that make Aurora inverters. The difference is that Macsolar is assembled (same components as the Aurora) in China to save costs. They give an extra years warranty though on the Macsolar. The 5Kw inverters I've been quoted for are all transformerless so no whirring fans and heat in the garage like the Latronics 1.2Kw I currently have!

Lacehim · June 2012

Rightyo, I've ordered my 5.6Kw system, 28x200w panels, and a 5Kw macsolar inverter, all up $14,000, and I get to keep the 1Kw panels & 1.2Kw inverter and flog it off on ebay.

I thought I would share some of the info that I've gained by talking to people and stumbling my way though the numerous companies that seem to know it all but don't explain everything in laymans terms. Firstly a 200w solar panel is not better than a 250w panel as some might try to tell you. The 250w panel just uses more of the same cells in a 200w panel, and therefore is bigger, and weighs more. The system designer I purchased from prefers the 200w panels because he can fit more panels on with less dead space on your roof, especially if the shape is irregular. MacSolar are imported by the contracted National Importer of both MacSolar & Aurora. All MacSolar inverters are electrolyte free, which will increase the inverters life and conversion efficiency, Aurora at the moment only do this on the 10KW + inverter size. Therefore the inverter itself is just over .5% more efficient in sending energy back to the grid. The Macsolar also has 6 years warrenty.

He speciflied 5.6kw which is the maximum allowed on that inverter because it means is that earlier in the day and later in the day it will feed more power back. So let's say an inverter with 5kw ac out with 5 kw of panels turns off at 5 pm an inverter with 5.6kw panels turns off later say 6-6.30. We need all the power we can get because we use a lot of power so this system suits out need (or wants, not sure what one). So there you go, hope that helps someone else trying to understand different panel sizes and inverter brands.

Jonty · June 2012

AM, I am on 60 feed in down here in sunny Vic 8). Last Sept, the rate reduced to 30 cents..... I've got 14 yrs left at 60 cents unless there is a legislation change......

derrilex · June 2012

on 1340612527:

ANY COMMENTS ON THE FOLLOWING ?

Queensland Solar Feed-in-Tariff Slashed

[size=medium]Monday 25th 2012, the Queensland Government has announced that the current solar bonus scheme will close on midnight Monday 9th July 2012.[/size]
[size=medium]From Tuesday 10th July, any new applicants will have their feed-in-tariff slashed from 44c kWh to 8c kWh. Existing QLD Solar Bonus Scheme participants will continue to receive the current 44 cents per kilowatt hour feed-in-tariff as long as they continue to meet eligibility criteria.[/size]

Going to be a lot of crapped off people around I'd say. I wonder how long the Gov will keep the 44 for existing customers ? Not long is my bet. Can do slash and burn. Hardly a good incentive for new installs

Koffee_Kosmo · June 2012

As a hypothetical If the rate needs to be cut why not give the feed in tariff the same price as the buy price It's only fair KK

derrilex · June 2012

Not sure how I feel about it though. On one hand glad that I didnt buy yet as the pay back @ 8 cents would be ridiculous but pissed off if the Gov keeps it at 44 for existing. That makes no sense. Like having a two tiered pricing policy. Feel sorry for Lacehim if the Gov drops the 44 to 8 for existing - which I reckon will happen.

derrilex · June 2012

Can do certainly is been a bit antagonistic at the moment. Some of it valid, some not.

Lacehim · June 2012

on 1340620086:

Feel sorry for Lacehim if the Gov drops the 44 to 8 for existing - which I reckon will happen.

I already have an existing system, so there should be no effect on my new system. It will only change my side and produce more power, the meter will be the same, and so will my supplier. Fingers crossed. I have to say, if this is true, it is shocking. So much for saving the environment! Also all the solar companies will lose business then people will be out of a job! What's the saying "penny thrift and pound foolish"

derrilex · June 2012

Wait and see what happens I guess ???

Jonty · June 2012

on 1340626930:

Wait and see what happens I guess ???

I think you would see a court case if drastic changes were made to the tariffs. The Vic government rolled back the 60 cents to 30 cents last Sept as it pushed the price of power up (funny that). Suspect more roll backs may occur but politically it may not be beneficial to the party in power. On a side note our Ted has had a fight with the cops, nurses and now teachers. He wanted Vic teachers to be the best paid in Australia. He got into power on that promise and I suspect he might be a one term premier if he screws with teachers as he has with nurses & cops! Screw with my solar panel rebate and BF our local member in PF will get a knock on his front door :pan I know were the Victorian deputy premier lives!!!

Lacehim · June 2012

I've emailed my solar guy to ask the question. Hopefully he will know because my situation isn't explained on the gov's website. It's all about new systems, where as mine's an upgrade.

I was sitting here thinking (that can be dangerous I know :P ), if you didn't qualify for the 44c FIT, some might even be better going back to a gross meter where your meter goes backwards, effectively selling the power back at the same as your purchase price. Might be more useful if you use more than you sell. So use it at night, then wind it back during the day! :laugh: I can't really understand why they would reduce it to 8c. Surely it should at least be 1:1, so we pay and sell at the same price. I still think solar will be a worthwhile investment if the figures work out for you, especially if your home all day and won't have to pay for the power you use.

UNM · June 2012

in Vic it is all pretty simple. The PFIT (premium feed in tariff) was always planned to be an interim measure to encourage early adopters with a cut off date, or capped number of installs, whichever came first. Anyone installing solar could choose either the PFIT or the SFIT (solar feed in tariff), now that the cap has been reached, the PFIT is no longer available, so the choice is between the TFIT (transitional feed in tariff) or the SFIT, which is not capped. those already signed up remain on PFIT until they move house. I don't know, but it is possible the Queensland change affects real payments for those who are net power exporters? That is the way things are moving here in VIC, although the current VCEC (Victorian competition and efficiency commission) recommendation is for a govt MINIMUM of $.06 - $.08 per kwh, PLUS whatever the householder negotiates with their retailer. In VIC this is all net feed in of course so only affects excess power generated, the effective rate remains 1:1 for power generated and not exported. All clear now? edit: a couple extra points, in Vic if you add extra panels, the pfit ends as it was designed to quickly build to a set generating capacity which has now been reached. pfit for those on it runs until 2024. the tfit is 33c (25+8) not 25c. AGL currently pay 68c/kwh. - jonty you may want to change supplier

Brett H · June 2012

on 1340626930:

Wait and see what happens I guess ???

Well that's me out. My installer is a sparkie mate who qualified as an installer only recently. Despite the quality of his work I won't go through knowing that my neighbors ar on a better rate for getting a dodgy install (two call out for fixes already) a mere couple of months earlier.:(

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