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Arabica versus Robusta

Steve_01Steve_01
edited January 1970 in Have your say
Hi all.
Someone told me the best way to test a coffees flavour, after roasting, is this. 
Make the grind a little coarser than you would normally have for an espresso,
approximately the same you would have if using a perc.  Put 10 grams of ground
coffee in a cup, with 180 to 200 mls of hot water, slightly below boiling point. 
This was a barista telling me this.  He said this is the best way to taste the
characteristics of a coffee.  Apparently they use this method at the Robert Timms
factory in Concord. 
On a separate occasion, i was told arabica coffee is better quality than robusta, but
robusta gives better crema. So i roasted some Ethiopian Yirgacheffe, very nice sweet
coffee.  But when i added some Indian AB cherry robusta, i lost some of the sweetness
and aroma in the coffee.
Surprise, surprise!!! So what do i do about that?  What is the answer to that?
Do i add robusta to arabica to increase crema, but keep it to an absolute minimum, so
as to lose minimum flavour.
Or is it that maybe Yirgacheffe doesn't blend well with robusta, and i should try
something else instead, like blending robusta with an indonesian or mexican arabica coffee.
Any help, suggestions? 
Thanks in advance.
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Comments

  • mycuppamycuppa
    I am very surprised people need to add robusta to create crema ? Every arabica bean I roast produces tons of crema.  Confused  :question:
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  • KelseyKelsey
    Hi Steve, I've only been to one cupping, but the process you outlined for tasting sounds similar. While it doesn't give you the sane 'flavour bomb' that espresso does, I've always found a longish black an excellent way to really taste the coffee - areopress is even better. But be careful - one person's gospel is another's heresy in the coffee world. Robusta isn't the all consuming evil it's made out to be by some camps - nor is it panacea. Experiment with blends, tread your own path. But if you're after a great blend, checkout some of the roasting threads. My favourite for strong toffee and mild fruit flavour with huge Crema is: 280g Colombian Bauche Supreme 220g Sumatran Kuda Mas 100g Indian Monsoonal Malabar
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  • C-manC-man
    sound like the CSI blend Is MM robusta?
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  • derrilexderrilex
    on 1363989371:
    sound like the CSI blend Is MM robusta?
    Nope
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  • KelseyKelsey
    Yes, that's the CSI blend. I mention because Steve is chasing crema and nothing does crema like MM!
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  • C-manC-man
    I just had some MM roasted over 5 weeks ago and still really good
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  • FreshCoffee2FreshCoffee2
    HOnestly, there is no arabica VS robusta.  They are different coffees to be used however any individual roaster likes to use them for the effect he or she aims to get. And then there are the cultural differences according to the market you happen to be in. Here in oz we use predominantly arabica, over in Italy (the home of traditional espresso) they use predominantly robusta. Their coffee is different. Try telling them their coffee is no good and they dont know what they are doing, and they will counter by telling you our coffee is no good and we dont know what we are doing! One thing is for sure, the "we only use 100% arabica" camp over here are simply using that as a marketing tool. If the coffee is good, does it matter if it isnt 100% arabica and there is some robusta in it? There are quality arabicas and crap arabicas and god forbid.,....there are quality robustas and crap robustas. Very often, the cynical marketers that design artwork for coffee packets print "100% arabica" in a prime position on the packet. And what if the content of the packet is 100% mediocre arabica, or has been badly roasted (charbucks springs immediately to mind), or is stale? What does that statement mean in the end? Its what's on your palate that counts. Regarding your observations on coffee cupping in post number 1 above. Its a fact that our coffee culture in oz is underpinned predominantly by espresso so anyone selling coffee to an espresso end user needs to cup the coffee they sell by the espresso method. However,  anyone wanting an experience other than espresso would probably benefit from slightly lighter roasting, coarser grind and using an infusion pot. Yes this does bring out a lot of characters that would otherwise be lost in the intensity of an espresso brew (but it will being out another dimension). Green bean traders / buyers use traditional infusion cupping as their standard, but note these people are looking for FAULTS and grading differences (and ultimately the price per kilo at market), which are much easier to pick by traditional cupping. But they are not in the espresso cafe supply business, which comes further down the supply chain.  Horses for courses, no one way is "correct" for all. Hope that helps.
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  • Steve_01Steve_01
    Hello Fresh Coffee Regarding cupping using a slightly lighter roast, coarser grind and an infusion pot...I wasn't trying to say i want to test every coffee i ever make using this method.  I was simply told this is the best method to taste the flavours of the bean and find faults.  So i was experimenting with my blending using this method. In regards to other comments about arabica and robusta, and does robusta really give you better crema.... At a time when i knew absolutely nothing about green beans or roasting, a barista told me robusta gives better crema than arabica, but arabica generally has a more sweet taste to it.  This is what he said, so i took that as gospel truth at the time.  He is a full time barista, but has never done any roasting of his own.  While i am here, i would like to ask another question; What are your thoughts on this? Let's suppose i have some Ethiopian Yirgacheffe, and i roast it at 220 degrees for 19.5 minutes.  Then i think, it is a little bit light, let's make it a bit darker.  Would there be a general preference to raise the temperature slightly, while keeping the time at 19.5 minutes, or keep the temperature the same, while increasing the time.  Is one of these methods preferred over the other, or is it all just down to personal preference yet again.  I have been told coffee gets roasted at between 200 to 250 degrees celsius.  But it seems to me, 200 degrees is not hot enough, and 250 degrees is too hot.  Thanks for the tip about trying Indian Monsoonal Malabar. 
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  • FreshCoffee2FreshCoffee2
    on 1364127500:
    Hello Fresh Coffee Regarding cupping using a slightly lighter roast, coarser grind and an infusion pot...I wasn't trying to say i want to test every coffee i ever make using this method. ....
    Yes I understood that, I was simply offering background info into who does what and why !  For most people it has nothing to do with testing and faults, its just another way of enjoying good coffee  ;) For the rest of it, you've posed an impossible question because everyones equipment, tecnhiques and expectations are different, requiring  a different set of parameters....which is why (commercial) coffee roasting is a profession usually preceded by a lengthy apprenticeship. If you then change the equipment, you have to relearn what you thought you knew.....so the temperatures and parameters you mentioned are not something standard that someone writes ina  book and hands to someone else to follow like a recipe...it doesnt work like that. The simplest example to give you would be.....that we could take the same greens and put them in 2 identical roasters, drop the greens in to each at a different drum temperature, roast each to a different profile, and you will end up with a different time and drop temperature for each. Then you have to cup them and make a judgement call on which you thought was better, run with that set of parameters, and vary them one way or another in subsequent roasts to see what happens.... The drum temperature (your example 220 degrees) is not bean temperature which is what you should be plotting to see what kind of profile you are causing by roasting at a drum temp of 220 in YOUR machine, and if you roast a "good" coffee for 19.5 minutes under normal commercial conditions, it could be said you have "cooked out" many of the goodies for the sake of smoothing the result in the cup. In any case, whether or not any particular roaster can keep a stable 220 degrees drum temp throughout depends very much on the burner / burners... also directly affects the rate of ramp up of bean temperature  throughout. Too many variables affected by type & set up of equipment.....it is not linear and "simple" as suggested in your post  ;)
    on 1364127500:
    .....I have been told coffee gets roasted at between 200 to 250 degrees celsius.  But it seems to me, 200 degrees is not hot enough, and 250 degrees is too hot. ...
    Depends entirely on the equipment and the profiles the roaster devises to suit THEIR greens in THAT equipment. ................... And someone else may tell you......everything I've written here is nonsense Depends on the individual, the circumstances and their experiences. Ergo:
    on 1364127500:
    .... Is one of these methods preferred over the other, or is it all just down to personal preference yet again.  ....
    I will say (and pretty much noted above already) I dont think there is much joy in increasing "roasting" time over your previous 19.5 min batch time, however a very wise old roaster once said to me (in response to a question that I posed): "....You try..."  :) Hope that helps.
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  • coffeehorsecoffeehorse
    on 1364004986:
    does it matter if it isnt 100% arabica and there is some robusta in it?
    I know the general answer is "no", but it does particularly pique me when people don't mention when they have used a component of robusta in their house blend. Why? Because even 10-15%, which is all most roasters add (to increase body, punch and crema) is enough to give me the jitters - I don't think it's just caffeine sensitivity as you've seen me still drinking offerings after barista competitions, but something else going on too. Either way, arabica is so dominant in the market that robusta, being much more highly caffeinated, should be mentioned for the usual reasons - e.g. a pregnant lady may walk into a cafe and order a latte with a double ristretto base. Having robusta instead of arabica may put her over what she has considered if a 'reasonable safe limit' for caffeine ingestion - which is linked to lower birth weight in babies. (While lower birth weight is linked to increased prevalence of more serious things, caffeine ingestion does not necessarily cause an increase in prevalence of these things).
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