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when is a mac not a macchiato?

adminadmin
edited May 2014 in Have your say
Ok this comes from a conversation Chester and I were having in Melb as we were checking out a few cafes [under Social >> MICE thread].
on 1400478602:
My only bitch about Melbourne coffee is that they all free pour a short macchiato resulting in the milk blending entirely with the shot really creating a small picilo.  Going to start a campaign
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  • adminadmin
    ok this was the one from Proud Mary. Interesting the conversation with the girl at the counter: "I'd like a macchiato please" "a long macc?" "no just an ordinary macc please" "
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  • LacehimLacehim
    A macchiato is a shot of coffee stained with milk or foam.  How much of a stain it up to the Barista I suppose. If you check out this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffè_macchiato you'll see that they are all pretty similar looking to yours.  Once you pour milk into it, it will mix together. Try asking for a short mac with a blob of foam on top instead.  See what happens. Ultimately it comes down to you making your requirements for you drink very clear, and if it's not to your liking, speak to someone.  They can't know it's not right if you don't provide feedback, especially at these snobby Melbourne cafes.
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  • conikalconikal
    Well the Proud Mary offering  would be a "Short Piccolo"  (or some such made up name) in my book ! :coffee2: Not enough to be a "real Piccolo" and too messy to be a Macc ! Note:.. In Italy, what you want to see as a Macc, is often called a  "Schiumato" ..a espresso with a blob of foam, whilst a Macchiato may include a little liquid milk also !  :stir ::)
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  • cosmic_couple22cosmic_couple22
    I agree Lacehim, these days you have to put out there what you want in the cup. However I don't think you should have to. If you look at coffee association  and other alike organisations, there is a pretty standard base line for coffee beverages from 30ml for an espresso through to a black eye (60ml espresso topped with 120ml brewed coffee) Small differences are acceptable but when a difference changes the entire form of the original product how can one still label it the same.  Go to the pub (25 years since my last visit) and ask for a scotch and dry, your going to get that which you know. Why shouldn't we as consumers have the same expectation with coffee? Interpretation is a wonderful thing, so is creating your own mark on something but not to the detriment of the original or your customers experience. When you pay $5 for a short mac of Nikkesi and it turns up looking like a pint sized piccilo, I for one am disappointed. "Bring Back the Mac" on his soapbox  Chester
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  • Brett HBrett H
    on 1400822771:
    Well the Proud Mary offering  would be a "Short Piccolo"  (or some such made up name) in my book ! :coffee2: Not enough to be a "real Piccolo" and too messy to be a Macc ! Note:.. In Italy, what you want to see as a Macc, is often called a  "Schiumato" ..a espresso with a blob of foam, whilst a Macchiato may include a little liquid milk also !  :stir ::)
    Yep!  Spot on I reckon.  Macchi means stained, Macchiato means spotted. I'd be nonplussed if I was served the second version.
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  • conikalconikal
    Coffee is very different to any bottled pub drink, its a product of the barista's skill and he can have a huge influence on the product...so we should expect some "customization" . Isnt that what sets one cafe apart from another ? giving us variety and choice.
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  • LwowiakLwowiak
    Out of curiosity, was the short mac Nikessi a double shot espresso (one shot from a double basket, anywhere from 14-18g), or a single shot made by splitting a double shot into two? I would be disappointed, as the milk would have destroyed the shot. I believe a coffee establishment should clearly identify its drinks. It can be as simple as an A4 printed page, explaining what each drink is. There is too much ambiguity out there. The drinks should also be labeled as to how many "espresso" shots it contains. That way the customer is aware of what they will get. I despise these minimalist hippy coffee shops with no signs, and no prices. In my book, no price means it is free. They need to get their act together. As someone with years of retail experience behind them, I view these places as clueless wannabees. It may be trendy to scratch a few words on a blackboard in a manner that resembles a 4yr olds writing ability, but it is totally unprofessional to me. Retailing 101. The silent salesmen is a sign with an accurate description and price of the goods for sale. Far more effective than any unshaven, cravatt wearing skinny jeaned hipster with attitude. Male or female. Another example of a pet hate. Ordered a double shot ristretto in Cibo in Adelaide (on a recent trip). Was charged an extra $1. Also ordered a latte for my colleague, also to be made with a double shot ristretto base. The same surcharge applied. Whilst sitting down, I could see the barista make the beverages. I ordered another round 15 minutes later, just a ristretto, and a latte with a ristretto base. No extra shot. Watched the shots being made. They were identical in taste and volume to my "double" shot. No surcharge this time for the mythical extra shot. The money was not the issue, it was the lack of conformity. I hate ordering a ristretto and receiving two teaspoons worth of coffee in the cup, hence always engage the barista as to what they use and how much volume to expect. In Italy (whilst on a recent holiday), my wife was consistently served 30ml espressos, and paid from .80 to1.20 Euros for the beverage. All were very good. She is yet to enjoy an espresso from a QLD establishment. These days I am probably viewed as the obnoxious customer who dares to ask what they are about to receive, instead of being grateful for the privilege of gracing their establishment during their limited opening hours, and sampling their limited offerings. No wonder the Starbucks are always well patronized by tourists.
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  • cosmic_couple22cosmic_couple22
    Tip my hat to you Lwowiak, love your sentiment. The Nikessi was a true doppio, and the best shot I had whilst in Melbourne. Doppio short mac thats how I always order my coffee, quite often I find the better barista's ask me if I would like it pulled as a ristretto and the not so good ask me if I want that in a mug or a cup.  :pan thats when I just walk away  :D
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  • Brett HBrett H
    on 1400828760:
    Out of curiosity, was the short mac Nikessi a double shot espresso (one shot from a double basket, anywhere from 14-18g), or a single shot made by splitting a double shot into two? I would be disappointed, as the milk would have destroyed the shot. I believe a coffee establishment should clearly identify its drinks. It can be as simple as an A4 printed page, explaining what each drink is. There is too much ambiguity out there. The drinks should also be labeled as to how many "espresso" shots it contains. That way the customer is aware of what they will get. I despise these minimalist hippy coffee shops with no signs, and no prices. In my book, no price means it is free. They need to get their act together. As someone with years of retail experience behind them, I view these places as clueless wannabees. It may be trendy to scratch a few words on a blackboard in a manner that resembles a 4yr olds writing ability, but it is totally unprofessional to me. Retailing 101. The silent salesmen is a sign with an accurate description and price of the goods for sale. Far more effective than any unshaven, cravatt wearing skinny jeaned hipster with attitude. Male or female. Another example of a pet hate. Ordered a double shot ristretto in Cibo in Adelaide (on a recent trip). Was charged an extra $1. Also ordered a latte for my colleague, also to be made with a double shot ristretto base. The same surcharge applied. Whilst sitting down, I could see the barista make the beverages. I ordered another round 15 minutes later, just a ristretto, and a latte with a ristretto base. No extra shot. Watched the shots being made. They were identical in taste and volume to my "double" shot. No surcharge this time for the mythical extra shot. The money was not the issue, it was the lack of conformity. I hate ordering a ristretto and receiving two teaspoons worth of coffee in the cup, hence always engage the barista as to what they use and how much volume to expect. In Italy (whilst on a recent holiday), my wife was consistently served 30ml espressos, and paid from .80 to1.20 Euros for the beverage. All were very good. She is yet to enjoy an espresso from a QLD establishment. These days I am probably viewed as the obnoxious customer who dares to ask what they are about to receive, instead of being grateful for the privilege of gracing their establishment during their limited opening hours, and sampling their limited offerings. No wonder the Starbucks are always well patronized by tourists.
    Wonderful post... I've decided that you can write the preface to MyCuppa's book!  And that's about enough red wine for me...
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  • adminadmin
    on 1400826989:
    Yep!  Spot on I reckon.  Macchi means stained, Macchiato means spotted. I'd be nonplussed if I was served the second version.
    yep, have always (personally) been pretty clear on the difference, as was Chester
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  • galumaygalumay
    In my experience its almost impossible to get a true macchiato in Australia. In Italy if I asked for one I got a single or double shot with a 'stain' of milk, often just a teaspoon or two out to the milk jug of stretched milk - and thats how i make them (with a double shot.) Nealy always in Australia a.) a normal extraction isnt used and b.) far too much milk is added - often to the point of a flat white in a glass. A significant number of cafes seem to think a macchiato is any milky coffee served in a glass! Just how little the Australian cafes understand about macchiatos is the fact that many sell 'short' and 'long' ones - that is just nonsense!
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  • derrilexderrilex
    I hope you guys are not paying for these lack luster coffees ? The only way they will learn is if you educate them. So don't pay for it. Tell them how to make it or ask them how they make it before you pay. Simples.
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  • Seeya LatteSeeya Latte
    Here in sunny Melbourne I have also noticed a shift over recent years ...Early days when there weren't too many options a short mac was consistently put up as a shot with a dollop of froth on top (the way I have it). Now with a greater general appreciation of coffee , I agree, it has got a bit confusing in recent times. People are asking for all sorts of things and budding baristas too are putting their own interpretation on things ( which is good I think). I had a barista give me a short mac the other day by pulling an espresso then pouring cold milk into a milk bottle cap then finished it off by adding the dollop of foam and he swore that that is how the Italians do it overseas.... Oh well who am to say ..... But at the end of the day if you like a mac a certain way then it's better to just ask the barista to make you a mac how you like it.... Even if you get them offside a bit Seeya
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  • galumaygalumay
    on 1401179049:
    I had a barista give me a short mac the other day by pulling an espresso then pouring cold milk into a milk bottle cap then finished it off by adding the dollop of foam and he swore that that is how the Italians do it overseas.... Oh well who am to say .....
    I have had it served to me that way in Italy, the cold/warm milk both seem acceptable!
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  • adminadmin
    on 1401178828:
    I hope you guys are not paying for these lack luster coffees ? The only way they will learn is if you educate them. So don't pay for it. Tell them how to make it or ask them how they make it before you pay. Simples.
    Hi Alex, from my personal point-of-view, the answer is 'it depends'. If I'm just having a coffee as an individual then I would say something; if I'm in a sort of 'official' position as coming from Crema Magazine, I tend to post experiences [good or bad] as part of the Cremamagazine twitter feed [see previous discussion on this under: http://www.bestcafes.com.au/forum/have-your-say/should-you-ever-post-negative-reviews/, as it's certainly got me in hot water before!]. In this instance, I posted the pic and made a comment on twitter and to their credit, the cafe responded on twitter in a way that I thought was great, with an apology and a pic of how they would normally expect to make one [see pic below] - to which I responded positively & with a bit of fun - their Twitter msg: "Sorry about that last one ?@CremaMagazine here is a virtual one on the house [?https://www.facebook.com/pic
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