Ponte Vecchio Lusso - advice please?

Moon · May 2014

That's not fair .. I don't appear to have access to that one. Feel free to point out where I can find it, as I get the impression it may come in handy over the next week or so?? >:D

Moon · May 2014

From the first taste test Quote Green Pastures didn't steam as well and ended up flatter .. with a small head on the latte. Just made another 'Most Wanted' using Farmhouse Gold this time. *Same result as above .. this is due to my steaming method .. not the milk used. Pour - 25 secs for 20ml Rating - 9.1/10 Nice flavour, only I didn't get the steaming of the milk right, and it ended up a bit flat.. lowering the rating. Steaming method I hold the stainless steel milk jug straight .. with the steam wand vertical inside it .. 1 cm in from the wall - with the tip just below the surface. I hold it still for the duration.. around 40 secs to reach 64 deg. Drinking temp 60 deg.

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2014

Have you tried the Koffee Kosmo steaming method ? http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com.au/2010/11/koffee-komo-method-to-creating-great.html KK

Moon · May 2014

Just had a look at the vid.. yeah nice. With my last machine I sat the jug on a box .. results were consistent .. rather than having to hold it as I've bean doing on this machine. Hadn't even given it a thought. I'll give the middle to the edge method a whirl. Cheers KK Brett must be getting all excited .. I am ---> not long now :P

Moon · May 2014

The Chief Dose - 16.7g Pour - 25 secs for 16ml + 2nd to top up for 20ml. Rating - 9.15/10 Tried the KK steaming method which didn't froth the milk to the usual high standard. No surprise - that first attempts at any aspect of the coffee making process doesn't achieve the best result. The microfoam hasn't been working out too well using this new method, or the previous one.. with either milk. Moon seems to have lost his mojo .. having bathed in glory at the dizzy heights of scoring a few 9.4/10s lately. Surely, it is only a temporary glitch .. and coffee bliss will soon be restored .. sooner rather than later .. I hope :'( Although that thick creamy microfoam in the video looked impressive - using the Izzo machine .. it had a very powerful steamer .. which the Lusso doesn't have .. and I wonder whether it was too effective, as I'm not into a lot of fluffy milk in my lattes that the Izzo produced in the video. Back in the day .. when I was using a jug in the fixed position (propped up with a stand) which, at the time produced good microfoam .. I wonder whether this is really the way to go .. as I now believe that the tip of the steaming wand needs to be raised gradually as the level of the milk rises. Perhaps I need to go meditate .. to connect with the cosmos .. to gather both inspiration, and answers to the current quandary. Are the coffee Gods listening? :angel:

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2014

Sometimes during autumn / winter the milk is more difficult to get good microfoam In these times I don't add any air but choosing to just let the milk pick it's time to be ready KK

Brett H · May 2014

The Gunslinger. Courtesy of Moon a very diverse package arrived today. The oldest beans of the lot were these: [embed=425,349]

Now by my standards these are stale just by looking at the date. Even the aroma was just a little too funky to be fresh but I'm not one to pre-judge so... one sinker, one short black and one flat white later I'm ready to score: A 9.15 for these with the potential to go to 9.4 with a fresher crop. I tasted some berry and mango though muted; and, the medium bodied short black had a great mouth feel and sweetness. I'm wondering what Indonesian beans went into this blend (if any) because it works for me. A real treat and one that I'll look out for!! Cheers Moony! I'll give it a shot on the pavoni tomorrow and get cracking with the rest. I think I know now what I'm going to roast you in the coming week judging by what you've sent me... :coffee2:

Moon · May 2014

This was the accompanying note sent to Brett with the beans A couple of these may be past their prime. I

Koffee_Kosmo · May 2014

My wife and I drink through around 1 kg of beans per week by ourselves KK

Moon · May 2014

I'd go through about 300g per week. I'd imagine espresso drinkers would go through more. I usually have 3 coffees a day .. sometimes 2 or 4 and tend to get milked rather than caffeined out. Major Tom Pour - 20 secs for 20ml Rating - 9.4/10 Perfect micro foam using Farmhouse Gold milk Moony has his mojo back :thumb:

After Brett gets through his reviews, I'd like to do a Poll on how many viewers of this thread are coffee lovers in Oz.

Moon · May 2014

Yesterday .. I was on Chat, meeting some of the lads for the first time .. after they were making comments about their displeasure of my discussion about the different types of milk in the thread. I figured this was an opportune time to pop in and join the discussion. Crikey - One came out and said he rated the thread 4.3/10 Another followed this up with .. Gee X .. you are being generous today. Cheeky boys aren't they.. ::) I believe it's better to be bagged .. than ignored .. so this is a positive .. yeah? Hopefully, with a bit of good fortune - Brett's reviews will bolster the rating up to around 5/10? Go Brett

Brett H · May 2014

Well some bad news then also for the Fair Trade Organic:

[embed=425,349]

First shot looked okay... so in with the milk sans latte art: Score: 8.6 There was a lingering taste with this one that wasn't great. The chocolatey taste and aroma was promising but the after-taste a bit flat. Perhaps it will be better as a long black?? Also, I'll ramp the machine from 91 to 93 for tomorrow's effort to see if I can recreate Moony's glory! Cheers Moony... There's no pavoni action today because the whole family is sick damn it!!

Moon · May 2014

on 1401176811:

Well some bad news then also for the Fair Trade Organic: Score: 8.6 I'll ramp the machine from 91 to 93 for tomorrow's effort to see if I can recreate Moony's glory! ... because the whole family is sick damn it!!

Are you sure the Fair Trade organic beans didn't also catch the bug that your family has? :stir You did say the after-taste seemed a little flat. lol ps. Stuff the long black. It's what they do as a latte that counts .. and can be used as a comparison. Hmm .. 50 grams <---- one more shot .. Brett :thumb:

My first 2 coffees today were pretty ordinary - mid 8s (it happens) <-- bit like Brett eh. One was using the Pauls Unhomogenized organic milk. Nothing special there. Then I had a Major Tom using FH Rating - 9.4/10 <-- Delicious

Brett H · May 2014

The temp will go up and the grind just a little tighter and we'll see tomorrow arvo...... TBC

Moon · May 2014

Build Quality of the Ponte Vecchio Lusso - Lever There is general consensus that the build quality of this machine is pretty ordinary .. and I agree with this assessment. Having spent my first 4 years at a secondary male only Technical School - doing subjects such as 'Fitting & Turning, Sheetmetal and Woodwork .. I'd best describe the workmanship and components of the Lusso like this.. If I was in Year 11 .. as a 16-17 year old .. and we had a project for an end of year assessment, and it was to build a coffee machine .. the finished product of the Lusso would be what the result would most likely end up like. It is like what you'd come up with .. without mechanized precision machinery to work with, with the sheet metal shell being hand-crafted .. using an old-fashioned metal folding press .. tin snips .. electric soldering iron .. common electric drill .. spanners, metal rule, a felt marker .. and a file. That is - what you would imagine being put together in a workshop in somebody's back yard. From what I've read on the PV Lusso website .. this is the impression I get .. being a small family business. Even the paint work appears as if it was sprayed on with a small electric hand-held 'Wagner' - rather than using professional equipment. If a 17 year old sheet metal student produced this in class .. as the Teacher .. I would give them a 10/10. As a quality product on the global market - 5/10. Value for money - *8/10. Quality of coffee - **9/10 *There are probably coffee machines in the market that make better coffee for less $ ? **Seeing I haven't used a better machine to compare the Lusso with. Coffees are worthy of a 9+ at this point. It is a basic design .. imperfect in it's construction .. and uses components you are likely to find in a place like Reece plumbing - an electrical components wholesaler - and a general hardware store. This machine is no frills, basic .. has a solid construction .. and won't fall apart. It is built to last. My guess is that it was designed in the 1970s ?? .. and hasn't changed since? Rather than shelling out $3K+ on a whiz-bang elite lever machine .. I took someone's advice on a coffee forum .. who suggested getting something like a La Pavoni to see if you like the lever machines .. before paying out the big bucks. Seeing there a quite a few coffee lovers out there who currently have top of the range lever machines .. it appears many still own a La Pavoni lever .. which I presume was their introduction to levers .. loved 'em .. and then moved on to upgrade to a more serious top of the range lever machine. I wonder whether I will end up doing this too? In the meantime ----> Ponte Vecchio Lusso :-* :-* :-*

Brett H · May 2014

I reckon if your pulling coffees in the 9s save your money! Speaking of which...here are today's ratings. My 2yo helped with today's videos so they're not up to my usual poor standard. For instance, the first video stops ab [embed=425,349]

The Sheriff was a great looking pour but despite initially a nice mild chocolatey flavour this was not a brilliant taste. 8.9/10 It is much milder than say Merlo Forza and really the two are so different they don't bear comparing but the length of flavour is what let's this down. 45 minute wait with a ramp up to 93deg for the Fairtrade Organic shot 2. The grind was fined just slightly from yesterday to tighten up the shot and ring out some more of sweetness: [embed=425,349]

This was disappointing at 93 Deg and I didn't finish the cup. 8.1/10 This one didn't shine on my equipment but it's more a reflection on my not having sufficient volume to find a sweet spot. I've just a little left and I'm going to try them as a French Press albeit a small one just to have a taste to see what's happening. Cheers Moony. I'll get to the Pavoni one of these days...

Moon · May 2014

^ Keep up the good work Brett :thumb: and looking forward to your next installment. Great to hear from Brett .. telling it from his perspective .. using an e61 group pump machine, as opposed to a lever. With the limited amount of each bean to work with .. it is a difficult challenge to get a result close to their potential. Imagine if there was a show like Masterchef .. only it was called MasterBarista. They give you 4 sets of 50 grams of different beans - and the task is to dial each of them in - and produce your best coffee from each bean for the judges to score on national TV. You have 10 minutes .. time starts now.

C-man · May 2014

I would be interested in the results of the milk smack down

Moon · May 2014

on 1401334268:

I would be interested in the results of the milk smack down

Your Farmhouse Gold wins. Easily the best milk out of that lot. I'll be sticking with that one. An added bonus is that it is a bit cheaper than the others. Lovely milk .. which helps make those lattes even better. You were right on the money about this milk bumping up the ratings above 9.3/10. Nice one C-man :thumb: Awesome! ps. PV Lusso does come with the single lever .. which is what I have. Just incase you didn't see this answer to your question in an earlier post.

Just picked up 250g of both Genovese Super Brazil blend as well as Georges premium. Was hoping to also pick-up some from St Ali in Sth Melb to do a 3-way smackdown .. but had to make a quick getaway on my scooter to avoid the peak hour traffic. Looks like it will have to be a rating only .. without all the bells and whistles .. photos etc. About to give the Genovese a blast. Yeah baby .. should be superb .. we'll see.

Moon · May 2014

Genovese - Super Brazil Dose - 17.6g Tamp - light/medium Milk - Coles organic full-cream Pour - 20 secs for 20ml Rating - 8.7/10 Used the same grind setting and tamp as for the Sixty West bean blends .. which had bean backed off to a little courser. I think these beans will improve with a slightly finer grind setting to slow the pour from 20 secs to at least 25 secs in order to extract more flavour. Not a lot of crema .. and was quite mild. Had some nice flavour going .. only was a little too subtle. I like it with a bit more punch. Not a bad start for a first shot at this one. It will need to improve if it is going to compete with the last smackdown winner ---> Georges Premium blend .. that packed a knockout result.

Moon · May 2014

Genovese - Super Brazil Adjusted grind finer. Same dose & tamp Pour - 20 secs for 20ml Finer grind made no difference to the pour Rating - 8.7/10

Brett H · May 2014

Is Chief, Is a Pavoni, Is Good

[embed=425,349]

9.0/10 The first shot was too tight so loosened off and lots of good flavour. Once again the length was a little lacklustre but with some tweaks this one'll play! Cheers Moony! P.s KK beans are getting on but if you wanted to grab some just PM me. I'm around this weekend!!

Moon · May 2014

^ Brett having some success with his La Pavoni lever .. which is good. *Milk used today - Great Ocean Road full-cream. Georges Premium blend Coffee 1 Dose - 16.6g Tamp - light/medium Pour - 40 secs+ for 20ml Result - sinker Due to previous coffees ending up too mild .. I adjusted the grind finer to a setting that is finer than I have used so far. The spent grinds in the puk were loose. Pour was slow, drippy and too long.

After giving the group a good flush out .. I adjusted the grind way back to a courser setting. Coffee 2 Georges Premium blend Dose - 16g Tamp - polish only Pour - 15 secs for 20ml Rating - 8.7/10 Todays coffees are no reflection on the beans themselves .. as I'm fumbling around trying to dial-in these babies. It is a rating as to how I'm going with this.

Coffee 3 Genovese Super Brazil blend Adjusted grind slightly finer. Dose - 16g Tamp - polish only Pour - 15 secs for 20ml Rating - 8.8/10 Well .. massive crema only it gushed out. Slight improvement in the flavour compared to the Super Brazil I had last night .. so at least I'm heading in the right direction. :thumb: Still a way to go to do these beans justice - and extract the best out of them. I'm expecting that ratings can only go up from here ....... let's at least get back into the 9s ---> please :angel:

Brett H · May 2014

Even more success today with Mr Diadema and 'Most Wanted'. [embed=425,349]

With a roast date of 26 April this is getting long in the tooth but there's no arguing with its gentle sweet spicy chocolatey flavour and good body. In milk it was great rating: 9.2/10 I reckon for my tastes this is the second best. Yes, I've said second best because I reckon these have held their age well whereas the first of Moony's coffees was excellent but restrained by their age. I'm still remembering those Mango flavours. What bean gives a mango flavour team?? I must know... Cheers Moony

Moon · May 2014

My top rating up until just recently was for mycuppas Guatemala single origin at 7+ weeks post roast. I gave it a 9.3/10 at the time which was outstanding. I remember having a few in a row of these. After that experience .. I was waiting for beans to hit their peak at about 4 weeks .. so I'm not yet convinced that beans are necessarily past it around 4-5 weeks. I've no idea whether blokes go through a hormonal thing .. but even when I thought a bean had reached its peak after 3-4 weeks .. it seemed to only last about 4-5 days. Admittedly, I could have just imagined the whole thing. ??? I mean .. how do you explain that when you believe a bean is over the hill or 'stale' .. and yet - it still manages a 9.2/10 rating? With a 9.2 score .. it isn't outside the realm of possibility .. that with a bit of tweaking .. it could end up rating a 9.3/10 .. which would make it outstanding. 9.3/10 coffees are not usually made at your local Cafe. 9.2/10 - With a score like that .. how can you be sure that these beans aren't still in their prime? .. albeit, the latter stage? 9.2/10 is excellent/elite on my scale Realistically .. beans that are stale should not even rate an 8/10 .. because an 8 is still a reasonably good cup of coffee.. and worth drinking.. in a 'I think I like this coffee' kinda way. Stale beans that were once good .. and hadn't lost it totally - need to be rated somewhere around 7- 7.8/10 and are considered as sinkers .. too yucky to drink unless all you had was instant Nescafe in the cupboard.. and in desperate times .. we do desperate things .. but we don't need to post these things up on a Coffee forum. lol We do what we have to do ;D to get through the day.

Anyway folks - Barista Moon is having trouble getting to a 9/10 himself at the moment .. so he's out there at the mo to give it another crack. :coffee2:

Moon · May 2014

Ahhhh ... Moon is back in the black! Genovese - Super Brazil blend After 3 failed attempts .. got it on the 4th. Had to use the full dose and heavier tamp to reel these little suckers in. Dose - 18g Tamp - medium Microfoam - perfect. Pour - 20 secs for 20ml. Rating - 9.25/10 :thumb: This blend must have those lightweight drier beans in the blend (like the Sirius Classic) rather than the heavier textured beans with more moisture content, such as Georges Premium and Major Tom - which would explain why it needed the heavier tamp. I also had to adjust the grind finer. After I did this - and used the polish only tamp, it still poured in 10 secs - which was too fast. I will use the same medium tamp next time .. and have gone a tad finer to aim at a 25 sec pour rather than 20 secs. I reckon this will up the rating .. and higher again when I get some more Farmhouse Gold milk, which should add a little more richness and smoothness to the latte. I'm thinking this blend will reach at least a 9.3/10 .. as it just lacked a little in the body and flavour dep't to reach a 9.3 this time around. Getting there.

Brett H · May 2014

Remember Moony I rated a 9.4 for a Forza on the Pavoni. :stir What tells me the beans are past their prime is the aroma after grinding. Sure beans don't instantly spoil at the 3 week mark and there are some that I prefer between the 3 and 4 week. What is clear is that you have accessed some terrific coffee and blends! I will fire up the roaster tomorrow and see what I can achieve. No pressure.... :rofl:

Moon · May 2014

on 1401486870:

Remember Moony I rated a 9.4 for a Forza on the Pavoni. :stir

Can't remember the 9.4 .. for the Merlo Forza .. but do remember you posting up a 9.2/10 .. and then followed it up with a 9.25/10. No problem with the memory for those wtf moments :stir Glad I wasn't aware of the 9.4 rating.. the 9.2s were more than enough to cope with at the time.

Hey .. my Sister liked the Forza .. only her excuse is that she has lost most of her taste .. and therefore needs a more punchy bean/blend to taste the coffee. What's yours? :rofl: Nah .. different strokes for different folks n all that... To be fair .. I should really go back and try the beans I wasn't fond of .. only I won't .. as they had their chance to impress me .. and blew it. Also, why would I spend the $ on some duds .. when I can get the good gear I have tried .. and 95% sure they will be excellent once again. I'm making no apologies for these little suckers .. for not suiting my particular taste buds the first time around. Merlo Forza sits permanently in my reject file.

on 1401486870:

What tells me the beans are past their prime is the aroma after grinding.

Interesting. I always sniff the beans when ground .. and appreciating the aroma is an enjoyable part of the coffee experience. I have bean sniffing the whole beans to be able to tell when beans are getting stale. Fresh beans have a brighter vibrant nutty aroma, whereas older beans have a dull flat tired aroma. Wonder how those Lavazza beans that I saw in the Supermarket the other day .. with the shelf-life of 2 years .. would go after all that time? Guess I won't be finding out on that score .. trust me.

I was very impressed with the whole range of Sixty West beans. It is surprising that they scored 5/5 .. and that there wasn't a Forza dud amongst them. lol No pressure with sending beans. I'm happy just to wait until you have too many, and looking to unload some.. like I did You could slip some Forza in there .. with a different label - along with a note - check these out, I think they are great.

Moon · May 2014

Genovese - Super Brazil blend Dose - 18g Tamp - medium Milk - GOR Microfoam - perfect Pour - 25secs for 20ml Rating - 9.25/10 Pour time was ideal .. only it didn't seem to make any difference to the result. Good crema producing a mildish latte with a double shot basket. Probably as good as it gets .. which is pretty damn nice .. but not a 9.3 Next .. Georges Premium blend to see if these like the current method/settings.

Brett H · May 2014

Okay Major Tom Ground control reports: 9.15/10 Great looking shot albeit a tiny bit on the thin side. This is yet another blend that could easily be a 'house' blend for any cafe looking to satisfy the majority. No video this time because I levy my iPhone in the car and can't balance the ipad as easily for videos of coffee. I reckon I'm going to up-dose this for the next one and report back. Roast date 31 April. Cheers Moony!

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