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Question du jour- How best to dial in a grinder.

Cuir BelugaCuir Beluga
edited January 1970 in Grinders
It's that time again, time for my question of the day  ^-^.

I am currently using a Smart Grinder Pro that has not been dialed in. I tried with my Icona but gave up because I wasn't getting anywhere.
At the mo I have it set to 14, it isn't gushing out but I am sure it should be a tad slower.

I have ordered a 30ml shot measuring glass which I am waiting for.


So I guess I am looking for any hints or tips to make it a bit easier for someone like me who hasn't a clue.

Thanks, Sue :).
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  • GeekKopiGeekKopi
    on 1432694615:
    It's that time again, time for my question of the day  ^-^. I am currently using a Smart Grinder Pro that has not been dialed in. I tried with my Icona but gave up because I wasn't getting anywhere. At the mo I have it set to 14, it isn't gushing out but I am sure it should be a tad slower. I have ordered a 30ml shot measuring glass which I am waiting for. So I guess I am looking for any hints or tips to make it a bit easier for someone like me who hasn't a clue. Thanks, Sue :).
    Hi Sue Some quick advice I can give you is dial in by taste (drinking black). Cut the stream of your extraction when blonding (light colour and watery) starts. Don't worry so much about the volume at present. With my current beans I extract for around 27 seconds from pulling the lever up to start the extraction. 18 grams of ground coffee in the filter. I end up with around 60ml out and approx 36grams of fluid coffee out. A ratio of 1:2. It can get very technical. If you have a scale you can experiment with coffee grounds in and output weight of the shot But it all comes down to taste. As a rule of thumb, a fast extraction will potentially lead to a sour tasting coffee and an extraction that's too long will potentially be bitter as the coffee has been brewed too long. The grinder fineness can be adjusted to your taste preferences as well as dosage in the portafilter. To start keep as many variables constant as possible. I.e keep a consistent dose and tamp technique. Then just play around with grind fineness till you get the taste you like for the beans you are using. As always. Here is another video for your enjoyment.
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    Start by using the double basket if you're not already doing so - even a short pour from a double basket has less margin of error than a standard pour from a single What you're looking for is 30ml from 30 seconds extraction - as the rule of thumb there's a few variables to play around with here: 1.    Dose 2.    Tamp 3.    Grind Dose is the amount of coffee going into the basket - I'm an 18g to 20g kind of guy but each to their own Tamp is the amount of pressure you apply to your coffee when packing it with your tamper - from memory its 20pb of pressure pure square inch - so throw away your plastic tamper if you have one coz that aint gunna cut it! Grind is dependent upon both of the above - but its best to start with one variable and then explore all the possibilities there before starting with another when all variables are in harmony then you hit the 'sweet spot' - I tend to mark this on my grinder with a permanent marker so that I have a reference point to revolve around and when making adjustments to the grind you only ever want to make a minute adjustment at a single time wide adjustments mean that you lose your reference point and depending on the grinder it may take several coffees to go through the grinder until the nominated grind setting kicks in in the first place! so slowly slowly goes it - focus on one of the above variables at a time, take your time and make a note of your results in a log book, so you have a record to refer to and to build upon hope this helps, Pat
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  • Cuir BelugaCuir Beluga
    Thank you both, there is a bit for me to answer to so I will have to get back to you both tomorrow. Thank you :).
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  • Brett HBrett H
    Most importantly when starting off is as mentioned above change only one variable as you dial in.  That of fineness.  Keep dose (weight) and tamp the same.  Enjoy the learning curve when you get it really right the glorious Unico Spendor will truly deliver!
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  • steve82steve82
    I will second the dialling in with weight based measurements, judging by sight and volume is very inaccurate / inconsistent, unless you have been doing it for many years and even the best barista can be off. In regards to a learning, it often results in making unnecessary adjustments and chasing of ones tale. You can get 500g scale 0.01g resolution from ebay for $12. The 1 : 2 ratio, eg: 18g dose / 36g extracted liquid within 30 sec is a good starting point. Taste this and note how it changes as it cools. If you are unsure of the balance of flavour / your preference, line up 3 shot glasses and pull the exact same shot, splitting the weight evenly in each glass, its tricky but with fast hands it can be done, while being careful not spill any coffee on the scales. Taste these from end (weakest) to start (strongest) great way to learn about what part of the extraction does what and how this lines up with your individual preferences. Highly recommend watching the Chef step series on Youtube.
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  • Cuir BelugaCuir Beluga
    Thank you all, I do have kitchen scales but haven't bothered weighing coffee so far, it looks like it is time to start. I just need to wait for my 30ml shot glass to arrive. I am currently using the plastic tamper that came with the machine and probably will have to for the next couple of weeks, hubby has then promised me a fancy one. I'm not sure how much of an option drinking black is, as a general rule I hate black coffee  :-|. Thank you for the links and I will have a look when junior next naps. Notes have been taken. Thank you :).
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  • GeekKopiGeekKopi
    on 1432724841:
    Thank you all, I do have kitchen scales but haven't bothered weighing coffee so far, it looks like it is time to start. I just need to wait for my 30ml shot glass to arrive. I am currently using the plastic tamper that came with the machine and probably will have to for the next couple of weeks, hubby has then promised me a fancy one. I'm not sure how much of an option drinking black is, as a general rule I hate black coffee  :-|. Thank you for the links and I will have a look when junior next naps. Notes have been taken. Thank you :).
    Hi sue. Yes a scale is a must and a decent tamper too. Throw the plastic tamper out as soon as possible. I'm sure the coffee will taste 100x (?) better when you dose consistently (weigh) and tamp evenly. [emoji3]
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  • Cuir BelugaCuir Beluga
    I will do GeekKopi, hubby promised me a good one next pay day. Funds are running low we have had a few unexpected things crop up this month. I am thinking a purple, because colour is important, Pullman  :P.
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    personally i think that scales are overrated as a diagnostic measure - I use them once or twice when setting up a new machine and then never or very seldom look back yes in the hands of a capable barista or under expert guidance they can be a useful and informative diagnostic tool - no, unless you have someone to guide you in this process initially you risk over complicating what should IMHO be a straightforward and  hedonistic experience if it works for you then by all means do it, but weights and measures are not the be all to end all in my opinion if anything id be more inclined to keep experimenting until you get a result that you're happy with, and then by all means log that, and use it as a variable to revolve around are individual palates different and susceptible to different influences? yes absolutely, but only you know what flavours / profile you like, and volume in / volume out may or may not help you find it anyway, id take everything with a grain of salt and go what works for you! P
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  • Cuir BelugaCuir Beluga
    I will do Pat, first things first I guess, get my hands on that new tamper and wait for my glass to arrive. Thanks again :).
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  • Cuir BelugaCuir Beluga
    Well..... I had a go at timing the shot yesterday and got 30ml in around 20secs. I have put the grinder back two settings and I will have another try in a bit to see how much of a difference that will make.
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  • Cuir BelugaCuir Beluga
    This time I got 30ml in 14 secs but I did change the beans. Try again later.......
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  • Dry_bean.Dry_bean.
    Morning Sue, Brett makes a very valid observation "only change one variable at a time, using fresh beans from the same batch work on your grinder settings, 30 ml in 14 seconds is a real gusher. Can you adjust your grinder to grind finer than what you had it set on for this result? If its of any help I'm quite happy to have a chat to you on the phone, may help to get you where you need to be a little quicker, if your interested let me know, will PM you my phone number. :)
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  • Cuir BelugaCuir Beluga
    Morning Db, I am just playing with grinder settings at this stage. I had no choice but to change beans as I ran out  ^-^. I've just had another go and got a much better result. 30ml in 28 secs. That is with the grinder on 8. I have gone from 14 to 12 to 9 and now 8.
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  • Dry_bean.Dry_bean.
    30 in 28 sounds more like it Sue, well done. :thumb:
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  • GeekKopiGeekKopi
    on 1433036507:
    Morning Db, I am just playing with grinder settings at this stage. I had no choice but to change beans as I ran out  ^-^. I've just had another go and got a much better result. 30ml in 28 secs. That is with the grinder on 8. I have gone from 14 to 12 to 9 and now 8.
    That's more like it Sue How are you timing your shots? From when you flick the switch on or from first drop seen?
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  • Cuir BelugaCuir Beluga
    Thanks Db :). From when I see the first drop come out GeekKopi. I am currently using the microwave timer as it is the best I can do right now. I'll check out what the supermarket have next time I am there.
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  • GeekKopiGeekKopi
    on 1433037366:
    Thanks Db :). From when I see the first drop come out GeekKopi. I am currently using the microwave timer as it is the best I can do right now. I'll check out what the supermarket have next time I am there.
    I time mine from when I flick the switch. Not sure what is right or wrong but the way I see it my e61 pre infuses the the coffee at 4bar for a few seconds before ramping up to 9 bar. This pre infusion brew process takes around 8 seconds before I see the first drip. Timing preferences are subjective but it doesnt matter as long as the cup tastes great then that is all that counts. When I make a double ristretto I have found that on some blends I get the best flavour when I leave the shot running for around 45 or so seconds. Sounds like it's choking the machine and one would assume the coffee would be bitter but the taste in the cup is intense, rich and a nice syrupy 30ml from 18 grams of coffee in. Happy experimenting Sue. [emoji3]
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  • Dry_bean.Dry_bean.
    on 1433039911:
    I time mine from when I flick the switch. Not sure what is right or wrong but the way I see it my e61 pre infuses the the coffee at 4bar for a few seconds before ramping up to 9 bar. This pre infusion brew process takes around 8 seconds before I see the first drip.
    I do similar GK, 30 seconds from the time I lift the lever, approx 7 seconds preinfusion before the first drops appear. :)
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  • Koffee_KosmoKoffee_Kosmo
    In the past I have made several posts explaining the fill point of ones basket in relation with the locked position of the PF handle and the water screen And how important level tamping of coffee is I find that to many people don't observe the correct fill point and tamp level enough This fill point differs from machine to machine and weights change from filter to filter as well The best way to get it right for ones machine, is to fill and tamp level Lock in the handle and then unlock and observe the puck for any water screen marks The ideal is to be just touching by a hairs whisker or just missing by a hairs whisker Take note of the depth when the ideal point observed, and also mark it on your tamper if possible Then no matter what basket you use the coffee is always tamped at the right depth Note that different grind size will affect the weight of coffee in the filter  Hope my answer helps KK
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  • Cuir BelugaCuir Beluga
    Thanks everyone, I was mid-post earlier and out internet dropped out. Will catch up when we have a more reliable connection :).
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  • Cuir BelugaCuir Beluga
    Next cuppa I might try it from lifting the lever and see how it goes. I have been sipping before I add the milk and still don't think I will ever acquire a taste for milkless coffee  :P. I will give the weighing a go perhaps tomorrow Koffee when I have a bit of time to fiddle and see how it pans out. Thank you :).
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  • Dry_bean.Dry_bean.
    I find the five cent piece test a reliable way of establishing the correct dose level. Here's a description of the method taken from the article in the link below, other handy hints and pics in the article as well. "You can test for the correct height of the tamped cake to suit your machine by placing a five cent piece in the middle of the tamped portafilter. Then insert and remove your group handle, If the five cent piece gets slightly embedded as shown here it’s over filled) It should leave an imprint but not be embedded." http://espresseur.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/quick-guide-pete-v3.pdf
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  • GeekKopiGeekKopi
    on 1433056318:
    Next cuppa I might try it from lifting the lever and see how it goes. I have been sipping before I add the milk and still don't think I will ever acquire a taste for milkless coffee  :P. I will give the weighing a go perhaps tomorrow Koffee when I have a bit of time to fiddle and see how it pans out. Thank you :).
    Let us know how you go. Regarding drinking straight espresso yes it is an acquired taste. The way I drink it is I first cleanse my pallet with some sparkling mineral water and then straight after I pull my shot I drink it in 3 (little) gulps while it's hot but first I give the cup a swirl. That way I get the coffee and crema all at once to taste the flavours and feel the texture throughout my mouth. The syrupy part of the shot tends to sink to the bottom and the brighter notes tend to stay on top I find. My wife calls me weird but that's what works for me.  She won't drink it black even if I paid her.
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  • Dry_bean.Dry_bean.
    on 1433056318:
    Next cuppa I might try it from lifting the lever and see how it goes. I have been sipping before I add the milk and still don't think I will ever acquire a taste for milkless coffee  :P. I will give the weighing a go perhaps tomorrow Koffee when I have a bit of time to fiddle and see how it pans out. Thank you :).
    I don't add milk to my coffee, however I do add about 3 grams of sugar, always have always will. The hipsters will ridicule you, tell you you have an uneducated palate and that you have in fact committed the 8th deadly sin, followed by the statement that our coffee is so naturally sweet it doesn't need sugar (unlike that over roasted Italian Robusta) then attempt to educate you with ways of breaking your addiction to the evil substance (sugar) absolute rubbish. So, what I'm saying is, have you tried a shot with a small amount of sugar, it may surprise you. And to the hipsters I'm saying it's my coffee, I made it/paid for it and will add sugar jf I want to. I don't visit a coffee establishment on the Main North Road anymore simply because I got tired of the very obvious hipster attitude. That's my rant for the week. :stir
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  • Dry_bean.Dry_bean.
    on 1433060140:
    Let us know how you go. Regarding drinking straight espresso yes it is an acquired taste. The way I drink it is I first cleanse my pallet with some sparkling mineral water and then straight after I pull my shot I drink it in 3 (little) gulps while it's hot but first I give the cup a swirl. That way I get the coffee and crema all at once to taste the flavours and feel the texture throughout my mouth. The syrupy part of the shot tends to sink to the bottom and the brighter notes tend to stay on top I find. My wife calls me weird but that's what works for me.  She won't drink it black even if I paid her.
    Hipster? surely not. :rofl:
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  • GeekKopiGeekKopi
    on 1433062252:
    Hipster? surely not. :rofl:
    #nohipster  just well experienced in drinking black coffee [emoji3]. I'm so hard core I even drink the grinds at the bottom of a Turkish. Lol.
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  • GeekKopiGeekKopi
    Forgot to add that I even add my home brew grapa to my shots in the morning to warm me up. #coretto
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  • Dry_bean.Dry_bean.
    on 1433062343:
    I'm so hard core I even drink the grinds at the bottom of a Turkish. Lol.
    Now that's what I call tough. ;D
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  • GeekKopiGeekKopi
    on 1433063325:
    Now that's what I call tough. ;D
    you betcha...  Getting back on topic I dial in the grinder by the way the grinds feel in my mouth while I chew them [emoji37].
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