Public Education

Reschsmooth · April 2004

In many of these forum topics, the issue of educating (or in Simpsons parlance, Re-Neducation) the public on all good things about coffee, I would suggest starting with the very basics.

My first lesson would be: If you are going to sit down for a coffee in the cafe, choose a proper cup instead of the paper or styrofoam cup.

Too many times I see people order their mocha coconut decaf skinny latte in a paper cup and then proceed to sit down and drink it.

Any other simple lessons for Joe Public?

Patrick

john · April 2004

Patrick What a topic. I think we can have some fun here. Maybe even pass on a few hints to the Cafe owners and or Baristi. My first tips would be (apart from obvious hygiene issues): 1 Never order coffee from your seat 2 Never order coffee in a place if you can't see the espresso machine 3 Always go and have a look at the espresso machine and surrounds 4 If the steam wand is crusty from the days steaming, WALK OUT. But first tell the grotty machine operator why you are leaving. 5 When ordering a coffee in an unknown place, always watch the espresso being made. 6 If the extraction does not fit into the realms of true espresso, WALK OUT. But tell the so called coffee maker why you are leaving. JD PS> next tip could be what an extraction should be like. Any takers.

Reschsmooth · April 2004

Very good comments - but I think you maybe giving the average consumer a bit too much credit: 1. Never order from your seat or if you can't see the machine - I think before hand the customer needs to know what they SHOULD be able to see if the can see the espresso being made. 2. Extraction equalling true espresso - as per above, the customer needs to know what true espresso is (and I understand that it is not EXpresso, unless you are catching a fast train in Italy, as someone else pointed out). The question is, should the customer need to know why their cappuccino should not have a mountain of foam towering above their cup, or is it sufficient that they know it just shouldn't? Patrick

dcbc · April 2004

Ok tell me if you've heard this one before, Two guys walk into an EXpresso bar, and order two cappucinos, they sit down and wait. The barista textures the milk to heavenly perfection, and sends them off, the customers send them back saying we ordered cappucinos, obviously underwhelmed that the milk was not tower like in construction. Education starts at all levels farm to roaster ((this one is for fresh).. And all the steps inbetween)roastery to machine, machine to consumer and consumer all the way back. I would like to create a standard where consumers are embarrased to ask for a Hot weak coconut decaf mocha two sugars and while I'm at it lattes and cappucinos etc. A dream? No way

dcbc · April 2004

Ohh re the original post... Don't order large Don't drink soy if lactose intolorent drink it black Avoid places whose machine and work space are dirty and untidy- this reflects poorly on personal organisation. Make sure the grinder hopper is clean and there is as little as possible in the dosing chamber. If all these things and more are in check, Do not order lattes capuccinos etc these people care about what they are doing.Go out on a limb and enjoy coffee as it is... simply

john · April 2004

Patrick et al Maybe if we continue with a few more points, then we can put them in some type of order. Maybe some punters may take some notice and start to push up the quality level. There is always light at the end of the tun.... or behind the Espresso Machine. JD

Reschsmooth · April 2004

Just make sure that light at the end of the tunnel isn't the freight train coming straight for you! ;D I will leave it up to you industry practitioners to get the ball rolling, and then I may add my 20c worth as a consumer. P

dcbc · April 2004

So Patrick what do you want from a cafe as a consumer?

Reschsmooth · April 2004

As a consumer, I want: Nice hot but not scalding espresso; The barista to understand what I ask for (what's a ristretto?); Fresh milk; The barista to ask what I thought of his/her product (at least occasionally); Warm cups; Good crema and silky milk. What I don't want is: To see my milk in a cappuccino to look like a topographical map of the Andes, especially when; The customer next to me gets a nice silky cappuccino (obviously made by a different person); 'Old' milk froth to be spooned onto my cappuccino; A milk based coffee so hot that I have to wait half an hour or so to drink it; Wait staff in particularly refusing to accept my complaint or comment. That's not exhaustive, but explains the reason why I only buy wet coffee from one person in Crows Nest despite the multitude of 'cafes' in the area. Is he the best in the area? I don't know. But what I do know is that he cares about the way he makes his coffee, asks what I think of it, particularly when he has changed part of the process, and I am happy with the product I am served. I hope that answers your question? ;D Patrick

pab · April 2004

What I don't want to see/hear is frothing of milk that sounds like a 747 taking off. I don't want to see Barista certificates on the walls for a guy that doesn't tamp the coffee. My best impression so far was at a new Michelles (rip in to me for that one). The new girl making her first coffee was very passionate about the quality and was very keen to hear the feedback. Alas we found out that she didn't drink coffee herself so we recommended that she start so she can gauge a good coffee. Better this attitude than that of some snot nosed pretentious wanker who thinks they're above everyone else...

FreshCoffee2 · April 2004

Hi Patrick Re: "....Is he the best in the area? I don't know. But what I do know is that he cares about the way he makes his coffee, asks what I think of it, particularly when he has changed part of the process, and I am happy with the product I am served......" Thankyou for "agreeing" (with me) that the goodwill attached to a particular cafe has to do with how the cafe management presents itself & its business in doing what it does, and does not lie with the supplier of their branded barriers, umbrellas, cups and aprons (did I leave anything out?)... ...just couldn't help myself, had to slip that one in on you...really! Afraid however you are asking an impossible question in the topic. The market will do what it will do dependent on market forces. It's not the clients you have to stop from asking for strange drinks, its the cafes you have to ask to stop placing the strange drinks on the list for the clients to ask for. You have to stop coffee companies subsidising movie and TV program producers to have their brand espresso machines on set or to script in scenes where actors ask for strange drinks...that the consumer will pick up on. It aint gonna happen. We are subject to "interesting" levels of competition. By that I mean there are too many cafes, and in order for them to compete they all feel they have to offer "something more", or "something different". How do you get around that, legislate against too many cafes within a certain sized area? Legislate that for anyone wishing to open a cafe that they will have to sit and pass qualifying exams before being allowed to do so? And how do you stop the johhny come lately coffee roasters or coffee suppliers springing up all over the place? Same as above? Yesterday a newish coffee distributor in my area (yet another brand) came in to buy a coffee grinder for one of his customers. HE DID NOT KNOW HOW TO SET UP THE GRINDER. What hope does his cafe client have? (I am a professional, so no I cant tell you his coffee brand, honest). You are correct, the education has to come from all levels, I would say starting from the "top", not at the "bottom". We cant expect consumers to have good expertise in coffee making and therefore to be able to make a judgement on what the coffee might be like in that venue, before ordering it. Its up to the industries concerned to purvey good quality all the way down the line...so that ultimately the consumer may order their coffee...and then let their taste buds tell them whether they like it or not, rather than have their taste buds telling them it wasn't made properly or not. These two details are not the same and ultimately, it is up to the consumer to educate their palate as they have done with wine over a considerable period....that means...Time. With regard to education at all levels I would like to add one more thing. We have been running Coffee Lovers courses (in addition to other courses strictly covering the proper management and operation of commercial espresso machines to produce excellent espresso...and yes, I am STILL REFUSING to call them "barista" courses). The coffee lovers courses are really great for all concerned (including me). They are not strictly scripted and you never know what the participants are going to ask you to talk about or what that will lead to. So it can be quite refreshing depending on the individual participants in "class". Part of the course was "An Evening with The Roaster" where participants take a stroll down the aisles of stock of raw coffee beans from all over the world, eventually reaching the coffee roasting machine down the end of the building. We would run the coffee roaster and the class would participate in the roasting of a batch of their very own coffee, to take away at the end of the class and see how it would change and develop over a period. Unfortunately, it is very possible that someone participating in one of these pleasant evenings was the person reponsible for casing our premises, gaining knowledge of the security system as well as what coffee and coffee machine stock is kept in the normally PRIVATE part of our roasterie, and eventually leading to the burglary suffered a few weeks ago. This type of thing can only lead to one outcome and that is that future Coffee Lovers courses in our venue will no longer be able to take a very interesting and informative viewing of the coffee stock, nor be given access to view or partricipate in the use of the coffee roasting plant. In this case public education in my area is also a victim. FC. PS I am reasonably pragmatic. Anyone that does not drink coffee does not get to become an espresso machine operator in my business.

Reschsmooth · April 2004

Fair enough comments, FC, and it is difficult for me to add any meaningful comment on the top-down marketing approach leading to a coffee distributor selling the coconut mocha latte, as that is more of an industry issue. We have raised the issue many times about the EMO's taking their trade seriously, and discussed the question of why would they if the customer isn't demanding it. A good example: I have a colleague who believes he appreciates good coffee, etc. Yet, if anyone in the office is going out to get their decaf skinny latte, he will ask them to get one for him, regardless of where they are going. I have mentioned previously that Crows Nest has a very wide range of quality in coffee distribution, ranging from ashtray infused dishwater to beautiful extracted espresso and silky cappuccinos (who don't sell mugoccinos). Yet my colleague doesn't seem to care where he gets his takeaway from, as long as he has something better than the Bland 44 in the office (this is a comment I have made many many times). I have actually taken him to and bought takeaway for him from my favourate cafe in the area. He indicated he really liked it, yet still does not show any level of discernment in his coffee. So, if he doesn't care, why would any EMO take pride in the preparation of the product? Whilst I may change my consumption habits if I have been dealt both good and bad product, but most people won't - UNLESS YOU LEARN 'EM GOOD. But, the customer needs to care as well. As my bro has indicated, having a nice certificate saying you have attended a barista course for half an hour may impress most of the masses, but not all. Yet it is that fact that means the average schmo will settle for crap. By the way, my favourate cafe does not have any branded wind breaks, umbrellas, aprons etc, apart from a small sticker he stuck on his grinder. Yet the place across the road which sells burnt watery rubbish has umbrellas and wind breaks all over the shop. Let's hope at least, as you point out FC with the wine experience, that the public do eventually take coffee quality more seriously and beyond just the brand identification. Cheers Patrick

Reschsmooth · April 2004

Have a great Easter everybody, and I look forward to providing my mindless ramblings in over a weeks time. Patrick

FreshCoffee2 · April 2004

Hi Patrick, I have been thinking about your penultimate post. You mentioned the work colleague who has no particular preference about the apparent quality of the coffee/s bought for him, good or not. I previously mentioned my belief that coffee education has to come from the top, down. I'm afraid your example points the finger straight towards good cafe business management in that owners and managers should be hiring (or "training up", or "having someone else train up") the right people for whatever a particular position requires, and then supervising them properly. Good staff, need to know their job properly AND SHOW A KEEN INTEREST in it as well. This is all just good, basic business management. Whether your work colleague is prepared to accept whatever is being served up to him, or even knows the difference between a good well balanced brew and dishwater, the fact is HE SHOULDN'T be being placed in the position of having to know the diff. between a good brew and dishwater...his brew should always be brewed to the best possible standard, by staff who are properly supervised by their managers, irrespective of the cafe where the coffee was bought from. That's how he will get educated, by drinking coffee made to a good, repeatable, standard. His palate will respond and eventually reject substandard brew. We all have the same responsibilities within our own respective businesses, to supervise our staff and have them properly trained for whatever they are expected to do. Otherwise its bad management. No? FC.

dcbc · April 2004

I believe that the substandard quality being dished around town, places good cafes into a defined niche that only a niche market will respond to. Good cafe management? The answer to that lies with the cafe owner, who decides in which direction they are heading. Certainly quality attracts top end prices, and top end professionals, but where is the balance for a beverage that costs two, three dollars max?

FreshCoffee2 · April 2004

Yes but frankly, coffee is just coffee, nothing more or less (gasp, horror...). I therefore dont think quality in a cup of coffee should attract any more of a "top end" price than is already being charged around the traps...in and around my area that would be around $3.30. If anything, lo-qual espresso shouldn't cost any more than a cup of instant bought at school fetes and market charity stalls at around $1.10 where it is no more than a "convenience", or a "service" offered by stall holders, possibly even at "self serve". Clients should therefore be able to make a judgment on the possible quality of the coffee served in a particular place by the price indicated, not by generally moving the price up...but down to accommodate the true nature of the crap served. But of course you cant police that! In addition, customers might like to desist from buying coffee at their favourite fish and chip shop and take away joint. Perhaps the punters are simply asking for coffee in the wrong places? Lets face it, everyone wants to SELL coffee because they think there's a good margin in it. But there's no point in saying what a wonderful margin you are making when you only sell 3 kilos a week or less and are probably making a hash of it anyway with the worlds oldest espresso machine bought cheap from the second hand dealer (honest). Potential eatery owners who want to put in coffee need to sit an exam on eatery and cafe management. And the same goes for all these johnny come lately "coffee roasters" and coffee bean vendors who try and mask their inexperience with fancy italian or other cool sounding names, roasting coffee with el cheapo coffee roasting machines and operating from "back yard" premises, while not complying with the air pollution regulations that established coffee roasters have to comply with. And where may I ask, did they suddenly sprout this "instant coffee knowledge" from? And when you can stop cafe owners from believing in the these instant coffee bean roasters and suppliers, because they (the cafe owners) have developed this misguided view about having to offer a "point of difference", you will have answered the $64.00 question. Please let us know when you have the answers! FC.

john · April 2004

I think that once again the original topic has been lost somewhere in the middle of page 1 :P JD

FreshCoffee2 · April 2004

Right again John, so here's my answer to the question as paraphrased "......Any other simple lessons for Joe Public?..." Do not under any circumstances purchase coffee from "take away" joints and "fast food" outlets...coffee is not their game (for a real life example see PS below). Position Statement: If I was suffering from the horrendous caffeine withdrawal headache and was that desperate for a hit of caffeine, I would ask the take away attendant for a $1.00 cup of instant rather than suffer at the hands of their espresso making techniques. The instant will get the job done and doesnt taste as bad as a badly made espresso based drink. And adding to the one about not ordering coffee in anything other than crockey, I would say it is more important to see coffee served in the proper sized cup, as large cups rob you of the proper flavour, strength and balance. Incidentally, the same goes for a standard serve of instant coffee. So the punters should be taught to shun any place that uses over large (eg 250 ml) bowl shaped cups, and never to purchase mugga chinos. The "less is more" message needs to be publicised widely, and Ausies need to learn that "value for money" in a cup means extra water and induced bitterness due to lack of proper balance. Thank you John for getting us back on track. FC. Ps just returned from the Royal Easter Show where I was priveleged to see a young lady in a fast food van on site making someone an espresso by placing a single only portion of coffee into a double filter. But you see she thought she was doing the right thing as she had used "fresh" coffee from (full) dispenser of the doser grinder, (in a place where I wager they wouldnt sell 30 coffees in the day) On the Hume Highway I was even more priveleged to see a fast food outlet in a service station with a lovely new stainless steel 2 group espresso machine and grinder and all these 1 kilo packets of low grade coffee with 1 year "best before" dates printed on, and a $39.90 per kilo price on for you to buy. Why would you buy coffee beans from a fast food outlet? Why would you pay 40 Ausie big ones for a kilo of stale robusta based blend? Do the managers of these fast food outlets have so little respect for their clients? And what about their coffee supplier or coffee rep?

john · April 2004

OK Fresh Lets go back to the topic and put together a few things that the punter should or not look for: As you said : 1. An espresso served in a milkshake container and topped with milk and syrup. 2. Dirty milk steaming wands 3. Dirty environment 4. Bean hoppers coated in rancid coffee oils 5. Machine operators that wipe their hands on their apron and then use the same apron for cleaning the filter basket. 6. Reheating milk lets roll on JD

lars · April 2004

That's fine, but isn't the question 'how to get the message out to the general public'? Isn't there some sort of Coffee industry group that could fund a campaign like this (something called ACTA??) -L

Reschsmooth · April 2004

On this topic of public education, I have noticed a number of issues, all to do with David Jones (and this is not to denigrate them in any way): 1. Saw a recent catalogue with three $2000+ Elektra (sp) machines plus several other machines advertised; 2. Comments in another post referring to DJ's selling JBM; 3. Discussion with some friends a couple of weeks ago telling me about the great dry coffee they are buying from the Food Hall at DJs. Is this a sign that the bean and how the bean is converted into wet coffee is now becoming more important than the brand? Ie. is the public or at least a larger percentage of the coffee drinking public, actually starting to realise that there is more to coffee than the name on the umbrellas and wind breaks? I believe, that, whilst one can find negatives about this trend, the underlying theme must be good - Joe & Jane Public are starting to care more about what they drink (as well as the associated 'chic' benefit they believe they are getting). Hopefully, Fresh, we may start to see the corner sandwich store phasing out their 'promotion' of coffee and realise that coffee for them is often a necessary bi-product, and therefore remove the advertising they plaster out the front of their shop. Cheers Patrick

pab · April 2004

The worrying thing is that this increase in awareness in coffee by the public has not gone unnoticed. Nescafe and Maccona are marketing heavily their "gourmet" blends. Things like pre-mixed latte satchels (it's still only instant coffee!!!)I recieved my sample bag of Macconas new freashly groung range. With this in mind and from a consumers point of view I prefer that the serious coffee retailers remain in their small niche market. That way they remain true to the true coffee lovers. It's akin to staying independent or selling out and going commercial where integrity always suffers - could you imagine Tony Squiers have Popstars as a guest iof he had remianed on the ABC?? I realise that for those making a living out of the coffee industry it must be a fine tightrope to stay true to the bean. But we, the consumer, do need that elite level of coffee... BTW Patrick - you left your McCaffe Loyalty card at our place!!! ;D

Reschsmooth · April 2004

That's fair enough, but what happens in the situation where the market segregation between high quality and average/low quality is maintained, and you find yourself somewhere where the few cafes are of the low quality? I don't mind maintaining the 'elitist' approach, but there are obviously short comings. By the way, we tried the cafe in Leura (you know which one) and found that the cappuccino made by the waitress was better than the one made by the 'barista' the day before. Still was quite nice. Oh, and was disappointed that the Blaxland MacDonalds did not have a McCafe to use our loyalty card - we may have to give it back so you can get your free one soon. Patrick

dcbc · April 2004

Ego or total dedication to the bean? I think at the highest levels of any business egos are plentiful and healthier than the product.

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