Franchise really serving Blue Mtn?

Trussell · February 2006

"Jamaica Blue Wins Exclusive Rights To Distribute Wallenford Estate Blue Mountain Coffee To Trans-Tasman Nations."

and at $5.90 per cup, is this for real, or is it just another group trying to flog off a blend as blue mountain?

I would have thought it would retail for more than that...

they are also selling 100g vac bags and barrels
I know thats traditional but isn't it for green beans?

nunu · February 2006

The barrels are traditional for green beans. I certainly don't think it is 100% JBM. They would probably have considerably higher markup than $5.90 a cup. At $5.90 a cup however, it would certainly pay for the purchase of authentic JBM. The coffee won't necessarily knock your socks off. It's just a well-balanced SO. You could probably blind taste it next to a good Panamanian and wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Trussell · February 2006

well at this franchise you could sample it next to bilge water and... plus they're quite happily serving it as caffe lattes as well!

FreshCoffee2 · February 2006

Funny how the world always seems to revolve around people trying to put something over somebody else ;D This stunt (claiming to have exclusivity on JBWE) has been tried before, some may remember a couple or more years ago vittoria was saying the same thing. Vittoria is bigger than the roaster that handles the JB franchise, so if someone was going to have exclusivity wouldnt you think it should go to the larger party? All I know is...anytime I want JBWE I can get it through my own channels, and they are not necessarily the same channels as are now claimimg to have exclusivity. Notwithstanding, yes this franchise does have access to genuine JBWE but whether thay are making wet coffee with unblended, or whether they are blending is another story. If they say it is unblended, then it should be so. One technical note of caution. JBWE is a lovely coffee that usually results in a smooth mellow brew. If you use it in a milk based espresso such as the usual kaperchinos, flat whytes and lartehs, you destroy it.....most cafes use larger than standard cups...this results in even more milk in the brew, resulting in your JB turning into light brown milk. Repeat the words after me...marketing & publicity stunt - marketing & publicity stunt - marketing & publicity stunt -marjketing & publicity stunt - marketing & publicity stunt etc etc etc............. Regardz, FC.

Unknown · February 2006

I tried the local JB franchise and found they made nice hot dish water. They are also very rude, as my father in law sat down 4 coffee and cake his wife went and got a sushi pack then came and sat down at the same JB table ,this greatly upset the teenage mafia running the show and they proceeded to hassle them out for daring to bring another retailers product into their turf. Isn't it good enough that one of them had purchased JB product and was entitled to sit down. JB lost 4 customers that day

Unknown · February 2006

I usually like to read the posts without feeling the need to comment but it seems to me that the general rule on this site is to diss out on large coffee companies, multinationals and franchises whenever and wherever possible. There just always seems to be such negative commentary. More often than not, something that seems from your perspective to be under the best intentions, is perceived quite differently by many others. Why do people feel the need to heap SH*T on other coffee companies or other baristas. Does it make you feel better or more superior? It is simply unprofessional. It only serves to cause diviseness in our coffee community. "The world is not your espresso bar. Respect others' spaces." We're all learning and all have much more to learn about coffee. Walking around and talking like you're the only one who knows anything about it will only make you look foolish. Be careful when you deem "this is how it should be done" because more often than not, it's more that this is how you THINK it should be done, or just how you were taught. As for patrons bringing food from other premises into a dedicated eating area, I would be really upset as well. Do you have any idea how much rent a place like Jamaica Blu would pay in a major shopping centre or strip? At anywhere from $2,400 to $3,000 per week, as they usually have a site which has a reasonable seating area, each seat is premium. Albeit that there is never any excuse for rudeness, wouldn't you be upset if that seat which is meant to generate a certain amount of sales per day and needs to be turned over a certain amount of times in order to pay rent, wages, franchise fees etc., was being occupied by a non-paying customer. Not to mention how it would look to the other customers that the patron didn't deem the food at Jamaica Blu good enough to eat and had to go elsewhere. As for 4 lost customers, I challenge them to go to any other cafe/restaurant anywhere for lunch or dinner and bring food from home in a little BYO lunchbox or esky and let's see if the reaction is not the same. People that buy into franchises pay huge amounts of money for start-up and on going franchise fees and when you're working 60-100 hours a week for what is a huge investment which is probably mortaged against the house they live in, I think they have every right to be upset. They are not Joe Millionaires, just regular mum and dads working bloody hard to eke out a living (contrary to popular opinion). And FYI, NO...I am not a franchise owner, just a little disappointed at all the bad-mouthing that seems to go on. Have noted that "Celebrate the Bean" Festival was cancelled. Could this be...SHOCK HORROR...that the general majority doesn't believe coffee to be the be all and end all in this universe as we know it. Look forward to the feedback, the Forum has been a bit boring of late. Keep smiling

:D ::) :-*

Trussell · February 2006

I don't like to see people constantly complaining about things either, but when you have a group of people who promote the fact that they serve excellent coffee and have no respect for the stuff, then we have a right to call them up on that, by making it known to others, just as when we find an equally small and struggling business who take pride in their product, we make them known to others. I agree that if you aren't having anything from a cafe or restaraunt its not cool talking up their seats. I always feel really dodgy even going into another fast food joint with my frinds holding something from somewhere else. I have worked in a franchise cafe, and that particular one despite being based around coffee, had no respect for it. as far as celebrate the bean, i don't consider cars, or wine, or gardening, or home renovations to be the " be all and end all in this universe as we know it" and i dont think the general majority do either. thats what makes us individuals. So should we just cancel the motor show and the flower show and the home expo, why not the arts festival for the commonwealth games, and why not the games themselves, they're not the " be all and end all in this universe as we know it".... we all have our hobbies, for most people here, we enjoy good coffee. theres a general agreement of what good coffee is, and then certain characteristics that people like and others don't. what your saying is practically that for instance wine lovers shouldn't agree on a bad wine because a bogan might like it, and get offended. rebuttal?

admin · February 2006

Hi L-to-L - thanks for your post and I don't want to comment about the bringing food in issue, as i'm pretty sure you're right. However, I would like to give my interpretation, with respect to the 'dissing (presume you mean dishing) it out' on large coffee companies issue you raise. My perception of this is that people on this site believe strongly in a craftsmanlike approach to making coffee, versus what I guess you could call a 'mass production' approach, which influences everything they say/post on this site. This means that, in general, they would prefer to deal with a small local coffee shop than a big chain. But in particular, when it comes to roasters, they would prefer to deal with a (usually small) local roaster. This is not out of maliciousness, but simply because most people who love their coffee realise that you must start with really fresh beans. That means that beans from a large company which roasts overseas, then stores their product in warehouses overseas, then takes several more weeks/months to ship, and then more time in a warehouse here, are unlikely to be nearly as fresh as something roasted 3-4 days ago at your local roaster down the road. And even with large companies here, it is much harder to get really fresh beans, because of time stored in warehouses, etc. [By the way, if you want to see someone really 'dishing it out' on a large (Aust.) coffee company, click on: www.coffeegeek.com/forums/worldregional/australasia/188515. It's a little vitriolic in parts, but can't say i disagree with most of it). But back to the topic - I have read most comments on this forum about Lavazza in the same light - it may be that people have been singling out Lavazza, but I believe they really have just been using it as a proxy for other (overseas) companies, and there are certainly a lot worse. Actually, Lavazza probably makes the best job of any of the overseas importers. The point is simply that most people believe their product can't be as fresh as something roasted a few days ago. Lastly, for what it's worth, I do know the reason Celebrate was cancelled - because they told me personally. Sorry if this is a bit long-winded, but that's my perspective. -A

nunu · February 2006

Here's a question: How do you know you're getting premium unleaded when you go to fill up? Because there are legislated standards in place ensuring the fair trading of petrol. How do you know you're getting genuine, certified JBWE? You don't. I could understand if it's cheaper coffee, but with the price tag attached to certified Blue Mountain, There is bound to be someone along the supply chain trying to pull a fast one. Coffee in Australia isn't as closely regulated like petrol. I'm not saying anything about Jamaica Blue as a franchise. It would surprise me to find the local shopping centre has a place that offers one of the most expensive coffees in the world. Of something that is of such a limited supply, it just seems a bit questionable. Time for me to start making arrangements to secure the name to my new franchise...Kopi Luwak. Motto: "We only serve s**t coffee here"

Unknown · February 2006

Rebuttal? Actually I did mean to type "diss", so either showing yr age (no offense) or I'm watching too many American sitcoms. I note that Anthology does frequent "Fast Food Joints" which in food terms is equivalent to going to Starbucks, Gloria Jeans, Jamaica Blu etc., when talking about coffee, so as we say - each to their own. As for "having no respect for the stuff", how can you make such a broad judgement? Have you ever met anyone from management or any of their roasters personally in order to come to such a conclusion or do you make it a habit of going to all the franchises and tasting their coffee all the time. How many have you been to, or how many people from their company have you talked to personally? As for the fresh bean vs stale beans debate...yes, without a doubt "fresh" anything is best, but this is not the point of my post. It's the way in which people wish to have it "made known to others". Not sure if I want to be made to feel like an idiot or that there must be something wrong with my tastebuds just because I frequented a "fast food joint" instead of having something "freshly" made. Its simply the vitriol that does appear sometimes which is simply bad manners. Sure, talk about what you've been taught, or what you've read or what your opinions about coffee are but "bilge" and "hot dish water"...not good form and highly exaggerated. If you are so in the know, why would you have bothered to sit down and order one anyway? We're all intelligent people, right? We know how to be dimplomatic about how we say things. Ambassadors for, and students of coffee... That's what we are..not evangelists. Be humble in your own pusuit of excellence in the cup, and when you talk about coffee and espresso and barista techniques.

:D ::) :-*

nzroaster · February 2006

Firstly, L2L, i agree with you 100% about bringing food from elsewhere to an establishment. IMHO it shows a complete lack of respect for the owners of the store. There are a number of ways to deal with this issue, and rudeness is not the correct one.

Have you ever met anyone from management or any of their roasters personally in order to come to such a conclusion or do you make it a habit of going to all the franchises and tasting their coffee all the time.

Unknown · February 2006

Missed the point, I'll try again. So if I was to take my wife and kids (all non coffee drinkers) out and for some now bizzare and twisted reason I wanted to go back to JB and see if they gave me another under extracted bland watery coffee, i'd have to have them sit and watch while I tried to sit down and relax with a drink rather than let them eat something healthy from another shop. Hell if it keeps the franchise owner happy i'll do it. Hell no I don't want a take away cup full , I want to sit down and either way the other seats my family are in are not creating wealth. So what if the staff have a bit of life experience and perspective they realise they have a loyal customer with baggage and they are thankful. How ever if they want to be rude and chase out non wealth creaters they loose in the end by non returning and the bad PR the experience creates that is passed on to friends and family. Don't arc up , I see the side of the owner shaking his head thinking those seats could be full of people enjoying JB product but thats life not every one wants the same thing. Thats the trouble with the world the all mighty dollar is put in front of people.

Unknown · February 2006

Dear No More JB 4 Me Welcome to the real world....seriously dude, you need to get out more often. Have 2 teenagers myself, and usually go out 2/3 times a week. I've never had to ask them to sit down and look at mum and dad while we satisfied our coffee addiction. Doesn't the cafe serve hot chocs, milk shakes, smoothies, juices or soft drinks? When going out, usually family would come to some consensus as to type of food, cafe or outlet we would like to go to and majority rules. If you're in a food hall, perhaps you could just meet in the general eating section and if you asked politely (which works nearly 100% of the time), they'll be more than happy to let you have the coffee in a cup as long as you (politely once again) bring it back. NZRoaster...having worked with franchise industry top dogs to develop their coffee, what was the final outcome? Did you just shrug and give up in exasperation and not end up supplying them, because according to this site there is still no franchises worth buying a cup of coffee from. Rgds

:D ;D ::) :-*

Trussell · February 2006

In this instance, i was not generalising. I know the people who work at this franchise and they are fantastic people, but they don't respect the coffee. most of them now fall under the "Oh, I dont drink coffee, but I get paid $16/hour so thats pretty cool" because all the others have fallen under "I left because they would not let me adjust the grind and we were only getting 10 sec pours".

Lukey · February 2006

thats the thing about opinions, everyone has one. this is mine ;D having worked at a jamaica blue for a while hopefully it will shed some light on the subject. jb coffee they use is not all jb, its a small percentage. the majority of it is cheap aribicas from around the world particulary south america. if u read their brochure, their motto states in one form or another is 'to create a blend that will appeal to the majority of people' sound familiar? which is why jb coffee is extremely bland. topped of with a gallon of milk i'm not surprised. no morejb, u dont have go there if u dont want to, i dont think the manager is going to hold u there under your own free will. if its not your cup of tea(or coffee) dont go. with the whole food thing, most establishments have a unwritten rule where as long as something is purchased from the store, other foodstuffs can be eaten on the premises. all the places i've worked at and that happens, doesnt bother me most times, but i think their needs to be respect on both sides. l2l, j blue is not a fast food joint, it's more close to your coffee club. in fact its almost a cheap knock off of coffee club, and thats not saying a lot. having worked in both places and others like gj's, the biggest issues you'll find in the quality of the cup you're served is 1. the franchisee/ manager 2. degree of staff turnover have u heard the saying 'water flows downhill' same applies to this. the standards are set by the franchisee not the franchise believe it or not. although there are certain standards that have to be maintained throughout each store, its mainly the level of standard the franchisee wants to set in their store. some franchisee's i worked for really cared about maintaining a high standard in their coffee while others only cared about dollar signs, and this was in the same franchise. which leads to the next point. which store do u think had a higher staff turnover? yep, the one who only focused on the dollars. the owners that focused on the cup made sure they looked after their staff and also instilled the high standard in them aswell. the other owners,... well lets just say i remember one place that in a 3 month period i must of seen at least 2-3 new faces every week. what does that say about the quality of their coffee? shocking!!!! the moment u get a person to a decent level, they're gone and the cycle of training starts all over. guys, if any of you have an opinion like this or similar, please back it up with facts or something credible. otherwise find 40c and call someone who cares, it's tiresome listening to people whine and complain. luke

Trussell · February 2006

are you talking house blend at jamaica blue cafes or the wallenford estate jamaican blue mountains coffee?

Lukey · February 2006

yeah their house blend. what do u know, they always told there was jb estate beans in their blend. naughty :o

nzroaster · February 2006

NZRoaster...having worked with franchise industry top dogs to develop their coffee, what was the final outcome?

admin · February 2006

L-2-L - just wanted to give a bit of feedback on your little lecture to site members about their language.

Sure, talk about what you've been taught, or what you've read or what your opinions about coffee are but "bilge" and "hot dish water"...not good form and highly exaggerated.

Actually, I don't mind people using words, such as those quoted. As Admin, I set the ground rules and as you'll see from previous threads, I encourage vigorous discussion - as long as it doesn't get into personal denigration. In fact, I've had a quick look back over some past threads, and apart from using slightly more subtle language, it looks like you're as good at giving out vitriol as anyone else. I'm not sure you're right about being 'professional' either. This is a site for all those who are interested in, or love, coffee - not simply for professionals, or those in the trade. As for

Ambassadors for, and students of coffee... That's what we are..not evangelists.

-who says? Actually, I agree with the 'students of' coffee bit, but not necessarily 'ambassadors for'. And in fact (since it's a Sunday) as far as i'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with a bit of evangalism now and then. -A

Unknown · February 2006

Dear Admin Sorry....I'll just get off my soapbox now, but hang on I won't be able to see you because you're still up in your pulpit! As for "I set the ground rules..." didn't realise this was a dictatorship. As for the word "professional", in context I am referring more to character and spirit. "Bilge" and "hot dish water", well I've never tasted either myself, but just thought if we're going to give a critique at least give a constructive one rather than a highly exaggerated version. I don't know...good manners....must be a girl thing!!! Keep smiling!

:D ;D :-*

nunu · February 2006

I had a pot of tea at a JB on Friday. They sure give you the smallest plunger possible. I don't like to have to keep asking for water after every cup of tea. Mind you, when I drink tea, I drink lots of it. The next size plunger would be perfect, about the same size as a real pot of tea.

admin · February 2006

L2L ... difference is, i'm allowed to be on my pulpit. As Admin, its my job to determine the tone of this site, and although it's a right I don't use very often, it's one I hold quite dearly. As for 'dictatorial', check out coffeegeek or many other forums - I think you'll find they're much more rigorous in terms of what they will or won't allow. If you don't like it, feel free to join another site. -A

Unknown · February 2006

Dear Admin Apologies...obviously we're really not allowed to say what we feel afterall. I take it that "...feel free to join another site" is really a euphemism for "p*ss off". Now you're really being too polite. Well will make your day and retract my claws, uh..I mean pen and retreat to my corner to sip my coffee in silence. To be totally honest, really only put my 20 cents worth (but I'm sure you think its not even worth 2 cents)in, as some weeks, this forum (while being very informative in the machine/technical section)is seriously in danger of being more of a booruum. Feel free to deregister me and my details. Keep smiling and have a great day..I mean that!

:D ;D :o ::) :-*

Trussell · February 2006

L2L, why are you attacking everyone here when they are simply replying to your comments? you give your opinion but as soon as someone else provides a contradictory one you start attacking them ;

I won't be able to see you because you're still up in your pulpit! As for "I set the ground rules..." didn't realise this was a dictatorship.

If you'd read my earlier post, I explained why we don't find it necessary to do a detailed review of a bad product. and the administrator always sets the ground rules for a forum. Its standard for no swearing in all forums, does this mean we're in a dictatorship? And i'm sure admin is quite happy to have you on the forum, because of course all opinions on coffee are welcome, but this has nothing to do with coffee any more, its just a beat up. this forum is about coffee, we started out this thread talking about a franchise claiming to be selling the most exclusive coffee available in the world, you commented on how you thought we were breaking apart the coffee community by being so harsh with individual retailers, who's product we thought of low standards, and we stated our opinions. and it just seems as though you don't want to hear others at all! everyone here says what they feel. sounds like you think the whole forum is boring and opressive, so why stay and whinge about it? admin isn't saying p*ss off, just that if you don't want to be here you don't have to, the majority of members on the site are fine with it so why would we change something we are happy with for one person who wants everything their own way?

One-a-day · February 2006

If Jamaica Blue are making claims that are false shouldnt the accc investigate and if its really bad perhaps A Current Affair could blow the lid off. It would be in the same league as selling Mekong catfish labeled as Barramundi

Reschsmooth · February 2006

Since when would A Current Affair require all the facts? All they have to do is get some shakey camera work, a 'ba-eesta' who used to work their 40 years ago to make some innuendo and for the ACA reporter to call Jamaica Blue head office at 2am and say that they never returned their calls. Now that is true investigative reporting.... 8) (I'm just taking the p#$s) P

nunu · February 2006

5 beans in the hopper are JBM. They're serving JBM, although it may be a bit of a lucky dip to try to get one of those beans. ACA and TT have absolutely zero credibility. Investigative journalism through harassment and sensationalisation, now that's innovative. Sounds suspiciciously close to what tabloids do, but at least they pay their dodgy sources.

Trussell · February 2006

its more than likely that the stuff they are promoting is JBM, they did after all bring in extra grinders for it, and jack up the price. whether its pure or exlusive is another question. and with TT they lost whatever cred/professionalism they had left when they used the email addy [email protected], and started reporting on ch7 shows as current affairs. plus this is pretty funny - from their website; "Would you like to appear on Today Tonight? Simply send us an email with some details about yourself, and we will give you a call when we require participants for a story." hi this is today tonight i was wondering if you could come and say you got food poisoning? ha ha ha

FreshCoffee2 · February 2006

I think the question has been pretty well answered already. If they are advertising its unblended, then it should be so. If they are NOT (advertising its UNblended), then it CAN be blended. Who cares, as long as the coffee served up tastes good and at $5.20 a cup, you only get caught once! Whether it is good (wet) coffee in the cup or not is up to the individual franchisees as has been well pointed out. My concern is more the rubbish about exclusivity...These days there is precious little exclusivity in anything. If someone was upset by staff at one franchise location, that doesnt necessarily mean that that someone should bag all JB stores because in another store across town, the situation may well be entirely the opposite after all, they are effectively all separate, individually owned stores. It is pure fantasy to carry on about store owners paying big money for rent and therefore HAVING THE RIGHT to get upset by people bringing in product bought elsewhere and sitting with friends / family / colleagues that HAVE bought product from the store at whose table they are sitting. Realistically, staff / owners that give their own clients the short shift because they brought along someone that didnt buy from them, are asking (with a capital "A") for trouble, and display unbelievable short sightedness. If staff have to ask someone to move along (perhaps in the situation where all their chairs are occupied, stopping genuine shoppers coming in) then it has to be done with utmost care and politeness and only as a last resort. An unhappy client tells everyone about it.....as has happened here, and future potential business from the clients friends (those that dared to sit with the client) is also lost. So it appears that if we as store owners EXCERCISE OUR RIGHT we lose, so what the devil is the point? L2L your input in this forum is most welcome as you always seem to bring a different point of view that makes people stop and think. I for one would be sorry to see you (or anyone else for that matter) go, but may I suggest there is no point in appearing to lecture / chide others about their attitude (as perceived by you), then getting upset when they bite back. Can we move on to a new topic now as I think this one is dead? Regardz to all, FC.

CanberraCoffeeCnr · March 2006

Fairdinkum... you lot take yourself very seriously. Who really cares what JB serve? Does it affect you? I'd hate to be so myopic, self-absorbed and neurotic about coffee served by a shop.. to carry on like some of you. I use a Jura automatic machine. *audible shudder runs through the ranks of connosieurs...* I like the result. I still like drinking coffee from a regular street cafe here in Canberra. And I will stomach the GJ, JB and CC stuff. I am not that elitist. It's all coffee.. enjoy.

coffeedrinker · April 2006

I find coffee franchises rather dreary places really. Production lines, chemicalised weak coffees, no real service and my pet hate dirty tables. With 4 people working behind a counter, why cant 1 person clean and why do GJ always have to have 2 people making a coffee. Smaller places always seem better to me.

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