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Coffee strength and volume?

GLOGLO
edited January 1970 in Have your say
What i am trying to determine is:

Is a 2x servings of 30ml strong black taste the same as a single 60ml strong black?

As I believe that my automatic machine uses the same amount of coffee beans regardless of the volume of coffee served.  I suspect that the 2x30ml serviing would use twice the coffee beans.

would that be correct?
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Comments

  • Unknown
    Correct you are using twice the amount of coffee but you are getting a better flavour, after 30 mls you are extracting dirty water.
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  • mattyjmattyj
    not necessarily ... you're extracting dirty water after the shot goes blonde. Some shots go blonde before 30mls (ristretto), some shots can flow for 45mls before blonding (lungo) ... there are no hard and fast rules. watch the streams.
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  • GLOGLO
    in that case, how is 30ml of strong black made differently to 30ml of normal?  Presuming that the bean count is the same?
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  • FreshCoffee2FreshCoffee2
    Afraid you are asking questions (or part of) that cant be answered fully by anyone unless they have a proper working knowledge of the actual model automatic machine that you are working with..... In any case, let me see if I can help: You asked: "........Is a 2x servings of 30ml strong black taste the same as a single 60ml strong black?.." Well yes...if the only difference in your technique is to either place A) a cup under each spout (2) and B) a single cup under both spouts....for the same coffee making function. And no...if what you mean is that in the first instance you have pressed the "DOUBLE" coffee button (thereby the machine uses 2 portions of grinds to flow 60 mls), and in the second instance you have simply pressed the "SINGLE" coffee button (thereby the machine uses only 1 portion of grinds to flow 60 mls).... You wrote: ".......As I believe that my automatic machine uses the same amount of coffee beans regardless of the volume of coffee served....would that be correct?....." Well yes and no, depends on how programmable the model is, & whether you press the single coffee button or the double coffee button as already mentioned above. If the quantity of grinds per cup is not programmable but you want to flow a long coffee, just press the "double" coffee button and have it flow a longer amount of wet coffee into the cup. The "rules of espresso" BEND quite a bit when you use domestic automatic espresso machines. The extraction from an auto is not the same as that from a regular manually operated espresso machine, and you CAN make longer coffees by simply flowing the pour for longer and still have them taste ok. But you have to be judicious about doing this and working out where to stop so the coffee still tastes ok depending on the type of coffee used, and the way you set up your auto in the first place (eg grind VS dose). Hope this helps. Regardz, FC.
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  • GLOGLO
    When ordering a coffee, what is the usual volume of coffee that is served? 100ml?
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  • tommytommy
    most espresso from commercial machines should be served between 25-30mls for your everyday regular shot. Is that what your asking?
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  • GLOGLO
    i guess im refering to a cup or mug of coffee. Surely they dont hit the 'shot' button 3 times to get 90-100ml.
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  • tommytommy
    ah got ya - well i guess it would go a lil somethen like this - long black: 2/3 hot water + 60ml extraction from double group handle - milk based coffees would be 30ml extraction from single group (or 2 x 30ml from a double group)with the remainder of the glass being milk, so cup size from 180 - 210/220ish depending on glasses and cups. so i guess a mug of coffee would be either a single shot of 30 or a double of 60 with the rest filled with milk. As you mentioned regarding pusing the button again for more coffee, thats pretty disasterous as its running water back through your already extracted espresso forcing out dirty water pretty much. So if you want to make mugs of coffee just use a double shot (60ml total) and top up with textured milk :) im not sure on ml size for t/a cups - im sure some1 can interject with the figures :p
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    As someone who does a lot of takeaway coffee trade I can offer the following advice: One shot of coffee for a 7oz (small / reg) cup Two shots for a 12oz (med) cup and three shots of coffee for a 16oz (lg) Add one extra shot to each to increase strength (if strength is required), but cut down on the length (time) of the double shot, so as not to over-extract! ACG
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  • GLOGLO
    ah got ya - well i guess it would go a lil somethen like this - long black: 2/3 hot water + 60ml extraction from double group handle - milk based coffees would be 30ml extraction from single group (or 2 x 30ml from a double group)with the remainder of the glass being milk, so cup size from 180 - 210/220ish depending on glasses and cups. so i guess a mug of coffee would be either a single shot of 30 or a double of 60 with the rest filled with milk. As you mentioned regarding pusing the button again for more coffee, thats pretty disasterous as its running water back through your already extracted espresso forcing out dirty water pretty much. So if you want to make mugs of coffee just use a double shot (60ml total) and top up with textured milk :) im not sure on ml size for t/a cups - im sure some1 can interject with the figures :p
    Given that the Krups Orchestro allows for a selection of normal or strong coffee (7-10grams) or two normal cups (14grams), what then is the difference with a strong coffee, set to serve 120ml in a single extraction (allows upto 150ml from memory) versus a 60ml shot and adding 60ml hot water? I understand the terminology of 'dirty water' but whether your running surplus water in the same extraction or adding hot water, dont you just end up diluting the coffee? And for askthecoffeeguy, do you end up adding hot water or do you simply fill the rest of the cup/mug up with milk and froth???
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  • tommytommy
    k well basically your destroying whats in the cup when your exactracting 120 - 150mls. If you want a long black for eg, (roughly 200mls @ cafes etc) you would put hot water into cup before extracting. Im not all that familiar with domestic machines and how they extract etc, but as a rule of thumb keep them strong (as defined by ur machine..) and short. The reason u dont want to fill a cup with the extraction is that your forcing water through the coffee but all the good stuff was taken out in the first 30mls, everything after that is bitter and burnt. sorry i cant be of any real help but i wouldnt know the front from the back on a domestic machine
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  • GLOGLO
    k well basically your destroying whats in the cup when your exactracting 120 - 150mls. If you want a long black for eg, (roughly 200mls @ cafes etc) you would put hot water into cup before extracting. Im not all that familiar with domestic machines and how they extract etc, but as a rule of thumb keep them strong (as defined by ur machine..) and short. The reason u dont want to fill a cup with the extraction is that your forcing water through the coffee but all the good stuff was taken out in the first 30mls, everything after that is bitter and burnt. sorry i cant be of any real help but i wouldnt know the front from the back on a domestic machine
    Hi Tommy, That makes sense.   I believe the extraction should be no more than 30 seconds, and my machine when set to do 2 cups (on 30ml each) took only 20seconds from the start of the run of liquid to the last drop.   Should this 30 second rule start before the liquid starts to filter through? Thanks
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  • tommytommy
    um yeh but if it takes too long for the extraction to begin, your grind is too fine and the coffee is then burning on the grouphead. try and fine tune to get your flow a little slower at the end of the day its all fun playing around with this sorta stuff :)
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  • GLOGLO
    um yeh but if it takes too long for the extraction to begin, your grind is too fine and the coffee is then burning on the grouphead. try and fine tune to get your flow a little slower at the end of the day its all fun playing around with this sorta stuff :)
    Hi Tommy, I do have the grind set to very fine ( the max fine setting on the Krups). I did this becuase i thought that the finer the grind the more flavour you get. I will take your advice and you know what the best thing is? All this fine tuning means that I am working to improve my coffee, and the best is still to come! I will report back shortly!
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  • dhrwdhrw
    and three shots of coffee for a 16oz (lg)
    I registered just so I could ask this question so I hope you will tolerate a question from a totally espresso-ignorant consumer. I'm not an espresso drinker. Know nothing about it. I'm making tiramisu and the recipe I'm using calls for 2 cups (16 oz) of espresso. Not having an espresso machine nor the knowledge to use one, I thought my best bet was to buy 2 cups ready made from a restaurant that does. When I ordered it I said why I needed it. The guy who made the 16 oz of espresso for me told me: 1) he had used "16 double shots" and 2) don't drink this! My question is, if I have been warned not to drink it, why not? If it's too strong to drink, isn't it too strong to serve in a dessert where it has been used to soak the biscuits? Should I use it as is? water it down? throw it out and start over? (I'd rather not have to throw it out as it's the first time I've paid over $16 for what I had thought of a "very strong coffee") Any help you can offer will be deeply appreciated.
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  • dhrwdhrw
    ...and I don't know why it says
    I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    beside my post. Don't bother telling me, just please ignore it if it's rude.
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  • larslars
    Hi Dhrw - don't think too many people on this forum would be up on desserts, but I'm pretty sure the answer depends on your recipe... yes, if you were drinking that much espresso in one shot, that would be a lot. And if it was a recipe for one or two people, it would also be a lot.  However if it was a recipe for 8-plus people, it would probably make sense... not sure if that helps. -L
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  • dhrwdhrw
    Thanks lars! It is a recipe for 8+ people so am going to use it.
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  • kopi-0kopi-0
    I thought ppl just use NESCAFE  :D for tira mi su (ok ok, Moccona for the posh cakes)
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