Ponte Vecchio Lusso - advice please?

Lacehim

The PV lusso doesn't have an antivac valve, so when you turn on the machines you get false pressure.  You have to let the boiler think it's at temp, then open the valve to let the false pressure out and then close it again and it gets up to temp.  this is usually handled by a little valve,  but PV are so stingy they couldn't be bothered to include it.  I modified mine (without drilling holes in the case) and it worked like a charm.  Cost me about $25 in parts I think. When you turn the machine off usually the valve drops down to let air into the boiler, with the PV lusso this doesn't happen so for safety sake a lot of people let the steam run until it runs out of pressure probably worried that it will implode or something.  I forgot a lot of the time and it never blew up or imploded!

Moon

I do try to remember to drain off the steam although I don't always think to do it. I figure it is better to release the pressure rather than let it escape gradually .. which I'm guessing would probably extend the life of any seals. It was there from the beginning .. I thought for a long time that it was just a sticky valve. As mentioned .. it opens when the pressure builds up to a certain point. Only a slight hitch .. like the false pressure .. you deal with it as a part of your routine.

Lacehim

This guy did a nice little how to for putting an antivac in.  Use the same idea I had myself! http://www.thuisbarista.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2945#p42538

littleroundman

on 1423485192:

When you turn on the steam knob after the pressure has built up to max .. did your steam come out gradually as you turned the knob, cause with mine .. when the knob is turned up to half way .. the valve clicks/opens .. which releases the steam forcefully. You then have to turn it off and bring it back on gradually when the wand is inserted into the milk. Is this 'normal' .. as I've always thought the valve was sticking .. and did try oiling it, although it didn't make any difference.

This happened to mine several times. The problem is the valve and seal dry out rapidly with the heat in that area. I ended up having to buy some Marlin-9 food grade high temp grease, removing the valve stem from the barrel and coating it with the grease to solve the problem

Moon

Hi little I did try removing the valve stem and coated it with some general purpose engine grease .. only it didn't solve it at the time.. so I figured it couldn't have been a lack of lubrication issue. The fact that it wasn't a food-grade grease shouldn't have mattered. The valve only opens when the pressure has built up. This made me think it was maybe designed to do that  :question: I should get some of the Marlin grease and give it another go .. only I can't imagine the valve thinking .. yes, Marlin grease .. that's more like it. Any grease .. even Vaseline should at least worked initially.. until it dried out. I'll need the Marlin anyway to lube the seals in the lever cylinder when changing them over down the track. A Coffee Guru over on CS prefers to use a Teflon dry grease that he gets from a bicycle shop. little - Do you currently use a PV Lusso or did you have one once? What machine are you using now .. and how does it compare to the Lusso? What are the differences in the cup that you have noticed?

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I've bean using your 'polish only' tamp method for several months now .. and works a treat  :thumb: mycuppa Kenya and Indian Tiger Mountain single origins have bean a nice drop .. I'd rate my coffees on average 9.15/10 I'd say the slightly lower score is due to using a 30ml shot, single basket - in a std cup (up from 20ml) and 40ml double in a mug. The more diluted shots add that last part of the extraction which also includes the 'Yukky factor' into the mix. I guess I've ended up with the longer shots because the pour has bean too fast .. and has taken a while to get the grind right by small increments to grind finer each time. I'm yet to determine whether a slightly longer .. or shorter pour is better. I've favoured slightly longer in the past .. yet have had better at times from a 20 sec pour.

Lacehim

You've changed your tamping style so which is why your pours have changed.  Grind finer and you should be ok, but keep the dose the same.

Moon

After little round Man first suggested the 'polish only' tamp .. I tried it without all that much success. I then tried a series of light to medium tamps but without much luck there either .. decided to go back to the polish only .. and yeah, took others advice to keep the tamp constant and focussed on changing the grind. I was weighing the dose .. so that was also a constant once working out what weight to use for the dose. I found that different beans required a different dose. Over the last few months I haven't bothered to weigh the dose .. as I can guess pretty well where the level should be. I polish only tamp when basket is 2/3 full and again when full .. and to get up to around 3mm from the top of the rim of the basket .. add a little more and polish for the 3rd time.

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i had a std cup latte (single basket) using the Indian Tiger Mountain beans today where I dropped the shot volume back to around 25ml. Much nicer .. rating a 9.2/10

Lacehim

Yeah, I've had a similar experience.  I used to fill to the top of the basket, tamp (about half way when compressed), then fill again and tamp, leaving only about 3mm at the top.  Lock and load.   The deep baskets are very forgiving! Certainly in my experience weighing beans hasn't been consistent with varying types of beans.  The Breville smart grinder has a nice little dose adjustment so I just use that these days.

Moon

I have the Compak Touch Plus model .. when after having it for 9 or so months decided to try the auto volume doser that you can adjust. I dosed 3/4 full and tamped .. and then when filling up .. it would overflow and got messy. I figured I might as well do it manually. The volume required needed adjusting when you changed beans. The adjustment was a bit finicky. My tip is that you are better to just get the cheaper Compak 'Push' model and save the $

Brett H

Or... Don't buy the K3 at all because of the collar-play and buy a Rocky instead. Goodevening all.... I'm back and I'm medicated.  Buy a Rocky.... He must be on Drugs!!! Hear me out:  I've had a number of Rocky Grinders that I've been more that happy with.  Without the click-clack lid forget it; but, I've only ever returned two grinders to point of purchase because they were sub-par compared to Rocky.  One was a Grand Maccinino and the other was a K3T.  9.2 is great Moony!  Was the ITM MyCuppa???  The batch I had of them sone time ago was truly superb!

Moon

Howdy Brett .. and good to see you are back  8) I had the Kenya and the India TM from mycuppa .. down to my last 200g of ITM. I've come to the conclusion that to get a 9.2/10 with these beans ... I need a pour of 30ml in 30 secs using a single basket in a std sized cup. Unfortunately .. I have not bean able to reproduce the good ol' days where I could get a 9.3 or a 9.4/10 9.2/10 as you say, and I totally agree .. is a heck of a nice cup of coffee .. so I can't complain, well .. more than just a wee bit. Feel free to get me motivated by posting a 9.6/10 .... as it is always lovely to hear that someone I know can pour those God Shots Cheers  :coffee2: ps. I'm on to mycuppa about my next batch of roasted beans. Open to recommendations  :question:

Brett H

Never loose sight that irrespective of what books, baristi or inter webs say: my 9.6 May be your 6.9!! Keep fighting the good fight Moony!

Lacehim

And  your 9.6 now won't be the same as your 9.6 down the track either. I look back and can't believe how much I've learnt about espresso, and I have so much more to learn.  My next challenge will be other brewing methods!

Moon

on 1424505057:

And  your 9.6 now won't be the same as your 9.6 down the track either. My next challenge will be other brewing methods!

No need to espouse the riches and rewards of using a plunger coffee .. well, not to me anyway. Brett mate, and was it DB? .. raved about coffee made in one of those .. and all I can say - is lucky I only spent $5 at the local Salvos Shop to determine that Plungers aren't for my taste buds. Lesson learnt. Thank yer Mother for the Rabbits  :thumb: <-- Nup. It's a thumbs down from me

Lacehim

I'm not a fan of plunger myself.  It's the bits left over in the cup that get me. I'm waiting for a nice Brewover   Also I like my syphon for a nice clean brew.

Moon

Ok .. enough of the suggestions for my next lot of beans <

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0 replies  :pan I've taken the plunge myself .. and gone for 1kg of 'Panama Boquete' from mycuppa Monday is a warm one .. only the rest of the week is low to mid 20s Panama should be interesting .. I may have tried it once before but can't remember what I thought of it at the time. I guess conditions change .. so I get a fresh look at them  :coffee2:

Lacehim

Nice mate.  I haven't had them before.  The world of coffee is massive,  so there is always something new to try out there.

littleroundman

on 1424137953:

Hi little little - Do you currently use a PV Lusso or did you have one once? What machine are you using now .. and how does it compare to the Lusso? What are the differences in the cup that you have noticed

I have a PVL, but it expired a few months back The brain let go with a loud pop and when I removed the covers discovered the wiring and insulators had succumbed to heat exhaustion, despite me having fitted an Orphan Espresso insulation kit, and were very close to dust. I'm still too p***** off to even contemplate having the both the brain and wiring replaced, especially since it will require sourcing the part/s in the US Aeropress and CCD do just nicely.

Moon

OH NO!  :'( Check out this boiler insulation. http://www.home-barista.com/levers/ponte-vecchio-wires-overheating-t33701.html I was considering the Orphan Espresso ready made insulation for the Lusso .. only I was reading that the ends weren't covered where all the wiring is .. which is why I decided to take up the recommendation to do it myself and get some thick cork from Spotlight to put at both ends of the boiler to shield the wiring/connectors/switch from the direct heat. The bloke in the link above has insulation .. but with ends exposed. Apparently the Lusso can work fine by bypassing the Brain. There is a thread on this on the Home Barista forum somewhere (either there or here?) Apparently all that is required is to swap one or two of the connectors around that are numbered in the photos in the link above As for replacing the wiring .. is it only a few wires or pretty well the lot? Out of curiosity. How long have you had the Lusso .. how much use has it had .. and here's the kicker .. was the machine on all day for convenience .. and if so .. was the Lusso on for long periods on hot days .. say 30+ deg. Bummer though .. you are the only other person around here that has a PV Lusso ... that's a shocker Man. Worst part is taking a downgrade in your daily coffee. I've always thought having a backup machine would be handy .. only it seems that it is not a good idea to have coffee machines that have been working .. sitting idle in a cupboard. Might be something about rubber rings/seals drying out ?? I'd imagine if you have 2 machines .. you are better using both to keep them both going. Like the ad on TV .. like ships in the harbour .. coffee machines are meant to be used .. not sitting idle.. they can't be  ;D Which State are you in? Just wondering whether Jack from Sorrentina is still active these days for parts/repairs. He's in SA though

littleroundman

I know it's not fashionable to speak ill of members of the coffee industry, but, a few things need to be made clear for anyone contemplating buying a PVL. * There is not and never has been a Ponte Vecchio agent or distributor in Australia. There was a private citizen importing six machines at a time and onselling them. * Subsequently there is not and never has been warranty, service or support available to Australian purchasers Any parts were obtained by the distributor ratting his personal machine * The low water indicator on my PVL let go exactly two hours after I first turned it on. The fault is not unknown and occurs in PVLs which have been converted to 240 / 250 volt. A fact I had to discover on my own researching on US coffee forums, there being no support in Oz Promises were made and never fulfilled. I paid for the necessary repair myself 18 months on and I am still waiting for a wiring diagram and "real" tamper. If I hadn't diagnosed the problem and solution via HomeBarista and purchased a tamper via OE, I'd still be waiting. * The wiring and insulators in my PVL are totally useless. In fact, the ceramic insulators turn to dust when touched and the wiring is so brittle it snaps when being removed. That's WITH the OE insulation kit And, before any jumps down my throat, I am extremely fastidious with the way I treat my machinery and it (the PVL) has never received anything but the best and most careful treatment. I didn't purchase the machine based on price, rather on the quality of coffee it delivered, something I cannot fault, HOWEVER, coffee quality counts for nothing when a major problem surfaces after less than eighteen months, there is no local support, the main US supplier of parts no longer wished to handle the brand, the only source of parts is in the USA and the manufacturer will not reply to any correspondence.

Kevohere

And to think I was looking at one of these many moons (no pun intended here :stir) ago!  ???

Lacehim

I had a similar experience littleroundman.  I have to say Jack @ Sorrentina Coffee looked after me, just as he did with my Quick Mill Achilles, but he runs his business on his own so can be hard to get hold off sometimes.  It was never suggested to me that he was a official distributor.  To be honest I would have been worse off not buying from him because I would have been on my own when problems struck.  As it happens he helped me out a look, loaning me the group tool on a few occasions, supplying new seals, and support. Ponte Vecchio only communicate in Italian so there is the language barrier to content with.  They are still knocking out the same machine today with the same flaws as discussed here.  I can think of any improvements I could make the design better, it's a pity they aren't committed to the same improvements. My groups didn't last the pace.  The low water brains unit was misshapen from the heat but never failed.  I was lucky that I got a group replaced.  Jack actually got a replacement group sent to him from PV after many months discussion with them, but they sent a single group, when he had only ever bought double group machines.  ::)  That's when I decided to part ways with it.  It was a fantastic little machine and I still miss the coffee a lot.  Hopefully the new owner has had better results that me! Moon seems to have had excellent use out of his without any issues! @littleroundman, I do know someone that might beable to look at your brains (why do I keep thinking about Zombies?  :rofl: ) unit for you.  They are very very simple on this machine.  The wiring shouldn't be difficult to replace either.  One of the flaws of the machine is the placing of the wiring inside the case which has no ventilation for the heat to escape, or barrier to stop the heat directly effecting components. Still a great machine as moon is finding out.  I wonder how good it could have been with a bit of support from PV.

Moon

Seems to me .. not that I'm any kind of expert, but have done some reading around the traps .. that all the PV Lussos need to have the wiring end of the boiler insulated against the extreme heat coming off the boiler. As previously mentioned .. I have used a thick sheet of cork. I was considering the pre-cut insulation from Orphan Espresso over in the US .. but it didn't look complete to me .. with no insulation on the ends, especially the end that has all the wiring. Of course the manufacturer should have this as standard if they were going to persist with the flawed design. I have read in a thread where the Brain failed in someones Lusso .. and rather than replacing it .. all that was required was to change a couple of the wires around. What it meant was that the low water level light was disabled. In littleroundman's case .. some, if not most of the heat effected wiring still needs replacing to do that. I have Pm'd little to find out which State he resides in .. as there is a repairer of vintage coffee machines over in the Moorabbin area if he is in Victoria? I wouldn't imagine replacing the wiring would be all that difficult for him .. as he is obviously creative by being able to restore old machines where genuine parts would no longer be available. Once the rewiring was done .. with better quality wires & connectors etc .. there would need to be a layer of insulation to protect them .. otherwise the same heating/melting problems will likely occur. If in SA .. Jack would be the go .. only I haven't been in contact with him for around 16 months .. and no idea whether he is still interested or involved in repairing or giving advice on PV Lussos. I'm hoping he is .. as seeing there are no Authorised repairers in Australia .. people like me who decided to get one .. are depending on local assistance when things go wrong. A major selling point of the PV Lusso was that it is a simple design and therefore nothing much can go wrong with them. Other than expected maintenance like changing seals after say 12-18 months .. the problems I've found from forums is those relating to issues resulting from overheating inside the shell .. in particular the wiring and sheetmetal plating buckling due to the heat radiating off the boiler along with lack of ventilation. This is why I don't believe it is a good idea to leave the machine on all day .. and the fact that it can be should just act as comfort that if you happen to forget to turn it off after use .. it won't cause any damage. Just because it can be left on all day .. doesn't mean that it should be on a daily basis. The repairer in Vic is Rick Bond and goes by the name of 'Coffee Machinist' His email is [email protected]

littleroundman

It's not a matter of not being able to find a repairer. I'm in WA and we have several excellent guys here, including the guy who did the original repair after the first failure, despite his reluctance to do so due to warranty issues and without a wiring diagram For me, it is now a question of do I want to persevere. My first exposure to the coffee scene came via the Sunbeam 6910. I ended up with two of the bloody things, four if you count the two that didn't work out of the box. In the two years I persevered with the SB, those two machines were in the service agents' workshop a total of eight times. None of which were due to user error and none of which could I have prevented. Never in all my years have I found myself in the situation where a company refused to issue a warranty authorization until I took the phone to the faulty machine and let the call center operator "hear" the machine so she could diagnose the fault. The PVL was to be my reward for my patience and perseverance and so I could put all the books, CDs and barista courses I purchased to good use HA !!!

Moon

Don't know whether you have the single or double lever .. so it is either a $1,400 or $1,700 machine .. so it is well worth getting fixed so that you can get back to making those lovely coffees we know this baby can produce :coffee2: Insulbrite is the Insulation I used .. from Spotlight .. only you can't use it at the end where there is wiring .. because it has metal threads through it. Spotlight also has the cork. $6-8 each. I used the 3mm at the other end and the thicker 4mm where the wiring is. There are photos of this earlier in the thread No idea how thick the Orphan insulation is .. but it can be bolstered with a layer of Insulbrite just to make sure.. it is cheap enough. I also wrapped all the pipes with it .. to reduce the heat they also produced. My Sister has a Sunbeam 6910. They seem to last 5 years of light use before one of the boilers carks it. My Sister will probably get another one. She originally got a Saeco .. and had problems with it .. along with the 3 replacements that were all duds .. before going with the 6910 She likes her coffee as a 2/3 cup long black with 1/3 milk .. so the long shot setting suits her taste .. whereas the Lusso doesn't .. having to keep pulling the lever over and over to get the volume required. Can't imagine what it tasted like ... she said 'strong'  :coffee:

Lacehim

on 1424779250:

The PVL was to be my reward for my patience and perseverance and so I could put all the books, CDs and barista courses I purchased to good use HA !!!

I feel your pain mate.  I bought a Quick Mill Achilles Mod 0996 after my lusso.  The coffee was great but it sounded like a tractor in my kitchen, and it had a rotary pump!  The new owner fixed the issues but I didn't have the technical skills to do it, and once again no authorised service agent in Australia!  I should have known better, but we live and learn.  The shots out of it were killer though, I do miss it and the lever simplicity in a brew.  I now have a third hand modded NS Oscar, and I have to say I couldn't be happier.  It's cheap (cost me $500) and works, and the coffee is good enough for me and so far changing a seal on the group has been as technical as it gets (well apart from me stuffing that up, haha). Keep persevering it will all work out in the end!

littleroundman

on 1424780535:

Keep persevering it will all work out in the end!

The Executive Director in charge of Finance aka She Who Must Be Obeyed disagrees with you

Moon

on 1424780535:

I feel your pain mate.

Oh no! ^^  ::)  Crikey :tearhair: :doh:  :head: Coffee Forum Membership Moon :'(  Lacehim :'(  Brett :'(  DB :'(  KK :'(  c-man :'(  Kevo  :'(  blowins :'( 

Lacehim

What are you on about moon. LRM I would fix it and sell it on eBay.  At least you'll get some $$$ back and move on to something a bit more robust.

Moon

on 1424848906:

What are you on about moon.

Explanation of my above post The first row of emoticons was to relate to LRMs predicament and frustration The second ''Yes LRM .. like Lacehim .. we, the regulars on the forum are all feeling your pain too'' Ok .. I took the liberty of speaking on behalf of us other coffee lovers .. assuming we each can feel for a fellow member who loses his coffee machine .. hence the tears. It was meant to be a group support post.

on 1424848906:

LRM I would fix it and sell it on eBay.  At least you'll get some $$$ back and move on to something a bit more robust.

By this ''The Executive Director in charge of Finance aka She Who Must Be Obeyed disagrees with you'' I am interpreting that as even if LRM wanted to get the machine fixed .. he doesn't hold the purse strings. . and an important player in getting the problem sorted .. and back on track .. doesn't appear to be all too keen. If LRM was able to get the machine fixed .. why sell it .. when all it needs is some cork insulation to shield the wiring from heat. When I was reading up on the PV Lusso .. it was generally agreed that due to the simple design of the Lusso .. not much can go wrong with it. Iirc ... this overheating issue was the main cause of problems. Upgrading to another coffee machine will cost more dollars .. which, by the sounds .. is most likely a much higher hurdle to overcome.