Breville's new dual boiler machine BES900

Lacehim · May 2011

Sure is a wide machine. Much bigger than your DCM with dual boilers. They are still in hype mode AM. Give it 6 months and you'll be able to see if it will last the test of time and overdosing!

I still think $1500 is far too expensive, but there seems to be a stack of people considering it over a quality italian brass copper machine. Resale values will be the most interesting point...

RichardM · May 2011

on 1305711818:

Sure is a wide machine. Much bigger than your DCM with dual boilers. They are still in hype mode AM. Give it 6 months and you'll be able to see if it will last the test of time and overdosing! I still think $1500 is far too expensive, but there seems to be a stack of people considering it over a quality italian brass copper machine. Resale values will be the most interesting point...

I agree $1500 is far too expensive, but think that retail price will settle down to the $1200 mark if other discounting of breville appliances is anything to go by. It does look like it pulls an ok shot, but as mentioned by others, the effects of scale, corrosion, leaking/seals, electronics etc are all going to come into play. As I've said before, reliability is as important as being able to pull a good shot. In reality, I can pull a great shot with my Lelit, and the only real reason to upgrade from a machine like this would be to steam at the same time. To go from $660, Italian made, brass internals to $1500 Chinese made, compromised internals, I just can't see the value. I think a large portion of people will buy this from HN/Myer etc on looks and because it's the "most expensive therefore the best", then use preground coffee, throw it in the basket, and pull a 150mL shot - bugger the manual. Give it another 12 months of hard water, and they'll be throwing it in the bin when their warranty is rejected.

shape_shifter · May 2011

We were lucky enough to be invited to the launch of Breville

Vinitasse · May 2011

It may be wide for a Breville (or a Sunbeam for that matter) but still tiny compared to my L'Anna (Handy) so I am pretty impressed that they managed to cram so much tech into such a relatively tight package

Lacehim · May 2011

Great review on cg. Lots of good ideas built in. Could have potential. I can see why you want one shapeshifter. I will question why we aussies have to pay $1500 and the US is reported as being $1200.

admin · May 2011

Hi SS - was disappointed that I couldn't make it; thanks for the comprehensive update

on 1305752778:

I will question why we aussies have to pay $1500 and the US is reported as being $1200.

...interesting one: don't know if this is fact; might be good to get a comment on that from David? A

Lacehim · May 2011

on 1305761589:

Prices as from the Coffee Geek review re proposed $ for USA / CA and Australia - Also understand that they may have been some chit chat on another forum as well. TAX has to be added to the USA price but at the exchange rate, one still questions teh price . Then again a potential much bigger market and teh big stores there could put the heavies on.. X-Mas time and other specials will see the $ drop here when provided by the big players. A Grinder and Machine = approx $1800 and that is not teh average home user...

This comes up alot. TAX. We all pay Tax it's just the US bascially advertises ex TAX prices because the states have different taxes in place. We have 10% tax, but the difference ex tax is more like 20%. Our dollar has been strong for a while now, and it's reports in the media as being like this for a while longer. Also the US will also discount below the RRP. The things are made in China, so frieght shouldn't be higher and Breville is an Aussie company, and if frieght is so much higger we should be asking WHY? For too long the Aussie consumer has been ripped off by importers in my opinon and we just roll over and accept it because we are told to. In my head it doesn't add up. The US sellers have to offer a warrenty etc just like we do, and yes we don't have the volumes that other countries do, but if the price is way high you will sell less, lower the price and more people might buy your goods rather than buying overseas. OT but this goes along with the whole Apple itunes AU vs US prices, why downloading music is more expensive than buying the CD in the shop etc etc. End of rant, I'm going shopping.

beanflying · May 2011

I got a chance to have a bit of a play with it at Cafebiz before the Beanology sessions got going and in between them as well. So call it a behind the hype or a rough and dirty review. PROS Nice feature set in the electronics. Snooze mode worked well and the reheat time was quick. Very quiet compared to other vibe consumer pumped models. Easy access to the large internal water tank from the top or the rear. Very Dry steam and made fairly decent foam with only a few goes. Shot quality in the cup was fairly good. Brew pressure gauge is a good thing on a consumer device. Overall ease of use and feel was good CONS Fairly large footprint on the bench, this may be a deal breaker in some kitchens. Steam - INSIPID on this model at least, try making milk for more than a couple of drinks would be painful. Tamper - needs a machined aluminium base at minimum. The pressed S/Steel one was catching on the Baskets for me and other users disturbing the top of the puck. Nice idea with the magnet but could be better. With only a limited number of shots and time for a play and also no scales to measure with it seems to benefit from updosing. So to be fair I would have loved to have 3 or 4 hours and a couple of kg of beans to have a proper play and look at the machine in more detail. Apart from that a major step up for Breville from anything they have done before in coffee gear and the proof of how good it is in the hands of the consumer will be seen in this forum in the months after release when the problems start to show up. Would I recommend one in it's price range, maybe but I would feel more confident after 3-6 months of them being out in the real world first to find the bugs.

Gra · May 2011

on 1306505360:

Some statements seem to be just too good to be true..

Right on if the Breville can out perform my Minore for steam it would have to be bolted to the bench :o :o

WotB · May 2011

All the pre-launch hype over and done with. Remember just how good the Sunbeam ones were, at least until 6-12 months down the track. Appliance manufacturers are still appliance manufacturers, no matter how much R&D $$$ they shove into it.

shape_shifter · May 2011

WotB I don't believe that for a second. The company my partner works for was in a bad way in regards to what he does. He was hired and put in there, they are working on a huge project at present, with the right people in there it has all fallen into place and the product will wipe the floor with anything else out there. Sometimes it just takes the right people at the right time to pull off something others think aren't possible for the company. I'm completely willing to eat humble pie if the Dual Boiler turns out to be crap and I'll buy myself a rotary Vivaldi but at present I'm not taking much notice of the nay sayers :D

beanflying · May 2011

I am in the hope camp too as it will be a great thing for coffee generally however I have had direct exposure to appliance companies and service life cycles before and not in a good way. The biggest single problem I see is all items pitched like this is who they are sold by (generally hardly normal et al) and the level of customer training given being close to or if not NIL. Real world users are not machines or employees of company X trying to replicate the real world use. As we are adults here and don't mind talking about good and bad all will be revealed on the reliability front over the first 6 months. If that goes well then it will set a new benchmark in terms of $$ for home espresso machines.

Lacehim · May 2011

Will they be running a small course like sunbeam? That really seemed to help folk out. It really add value to the end user too. I would like to hear more about parts availability, servicing and product support from breville when the marketing settles down a bit.

DoubleRistretto · June 2011

does anyone actually know anyone who's bought one of these units?

admin · June 2011

on 1305752778:

I will question why we aussies have to pay $1500 and the US is reported as being $1200.

interesting, with respect to the US price being lower [almost seems 'counter-inuitive!] - however, remember they have inherent pricing advantages due to larger population [economies of scale] and sharper competition...

on 1307918443:

does anyone actually know anyone who's bought one of these units?

yes, must say I'm curious also!! A

Dry_bean. · June 2011

I've yet to hear a negative comment on these appliances, wonder why that would be. ::)

UNM · June 2011

Nobody has bought one yet. They are not available for sale. I think ETA in the shops is next month. That is why things have gone all quiet - it is in production, but not yet in the wild. I, like many others, am adopting a wait and see attitude. By the time it hits the factory clearance stores in 6 months or so, we should have a good idea how it performs in the real world.

Dry_bean. · June 2011

We've seen mountains of positive spin about this appliance coming from those within the industry so I really don't see any harm in a little healthy cynicism, I suspect performance will be somewhere between the wildly ambitious claims of the manufacturers and the doubts of the detractors. Few new products hit the market and immediately tick all the boxes claimed by the maker. The question I ask myself is would I be prepared to pay around $1500 for an espresso machine made by Breville? the answer is a resounding no, but then what would I know. ::)

admin · June 2011

on 1307923124:

Nobody has bought one yet. They are not available for sale. I think ETA in the shops is next month.

ah... ok Ewan - good point [thanks]!

Koffee_Kosmo · June 2011

I for one wish Breville all the luck in the world I say this from an Australian point of view on an Australian design by an Australian company exporting to the world & god knows we need that Pity it is not made by Australians I hope the design will stand the test of time, I have not made any comments preferring to wait a while and see how it all pans out with every day use by all types of users KK

beanflying · June 2011

The USD to AUD thing is partially offset by margins but also by the 5% duty and then the 10% GST compounding to 15.5% of the difference so $200+ of the rise is easy to explain. I don't think it has been mentioned here yet but Mark Prince of Coffeegeek fame has done a review here http://coffeegeek.com/proreviews/firstlook/brevilledualboiler still paints a overly rosy picture of it in some ways as the proof of all appliances is in the medium to longer term.

Dry_bean. · June 2011

on 1307927850:

The USD to AUD thing is partially offset by margins but also by the 5% duty and then the 10% GST compounding to 15.5% of the difference so $200+ of the rise is easy to explain. I don't think it has been mentioned here yet but Mark Prince of Coffeegeek fame has done a review here http://coffeegeek.com/proreviews/firstlook/brevilledualboiler still paints a overly rosy picture of it in some ways as the proof of all appliances is in the medium to longer term.

G'day Tim, read this first look the other day, Mark states early on that (This is not meant to be a review and is based on a late prototype machine. I will try to avoid some editorializing and test conclusions where I can, but there are times where opinion enters into the commentary. It is important to stress this is not a full review and is not meant to be.) Time will take care of the detail.

E61 · June 2011

on 1307923124:

Nobody has bought one yet. They are not available for sale. I think ETA in the shops is next month.

Hi guys - we are including the new Breville machine in our range based on how much the Smart grinder impressed us. We've asked one of the forum members to review it for us - just to get a real users point of view - without the marketing hype. When we do these reviews, they are posted straight to the forum, we don't edit them, censor or impose boundries so it will be a warts and all review. Of course it will be one persons opinion, but will be as unbiased as possible. We always try to have a couple of

Koffee_Kosmo · June 2011

on 1307951374:

Hi guys - we are including the new Breville machine in our range based on how much the Smart grinder impressed us. And lastly, we

grahamh · June 2011

reads just like another marketing review 2 year warranty is good but will it still be just another expensive throw away appliance most breville repairers wont know how to fix it, let alone understand how it works

RichardM · June 2011

on 1307952918:

Only if its not a chore for shipping to QLD I will put my hand up for a Guinea Pig tester as I have the room & bench space to compare with the BZ40 side by side Please note that I have never owned a Breville or Sunbeam machine Its always been manual brewing methods, Prosumer or Commercial Machines KK

Same goes here - I'd be happy to review! I've only owned a Lelit in "proper" espresso machines, so it would be good to see just what double the price gets. I too have a dedicated coffee station that would fit both machines. I really want this machine to be good, and I think on paper and initial impressions, it will be. The real proof, as most people here are saying is in the longevity of the machine.

shape_shifter · June 2011

I am still quietly excited about the BDB. I am hoping it will speak for itself when it's out there being reviewed and used and being an early adopter I'm hoping I won't have to eat humble pie ;D

askthecoffeeguy · June 2011

I'd be interested to have a play on one - I'm often asked to recommend equipment through my cafe and around this pricepoint it's always been the Rancilio Silvia or the Sunbeam cafe series, to date, as I've spent a fair bit of time on both these machines - and whilst the sunbeam has it's faults it is still capable of making very good coffee, and the after sales service is excellent It will be interesting to see how the breville dual boiler stacks up - would love to do a side by side comparison !

coffeedoode · June 2011

on 1307951374:

I would reccomend, however, that anyone interested in the new Breville machine wait unit it has been in the market for a while, look out for reviews and feedback -both here and elsewhere, and not be enticed by early take up offers.

ok so I'm confused. I checked your website and it says you are accepting pre-orders??

beanflying · June 2011

on 1308026309:

ok so I'm confused. I checked your website and it says you are accepting pre-orders??

Some will want to be first cab off the rank I am sure regardless of anything written or suggested anywhere so it would make sense to take orders. If someone I knew was looking at one specifically I would be going with the wait a month or two option regardless of the product or the company. First production runs do carry a slight additional risks. Not a customer of Matts either just my thoughts on first run appliances.

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