Electronic monitoring of the roast

beanflying · May 2011

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Vinitasse · May 2011

I have been using RoastLogger as my logging software and a Unitrend UT-322 dual probe DMM as my multimeter. The software is powerful, versatile and... best of all... absolutely free and can be downloaded at: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/green_bean/coffee/roastlogger/roastlogger.htm The multimeter can easily be found on the Bay of Evils for $70~75. It is a 2 probe datalogger with a USB interface. For more information visit: http://www.uni-trend.com/UT322.html

UNM · September 2011

Ok, so yesterdays posts on this topic all disappeared, here goes to try and remember what I posted. My temp monitoring/datalogging is an Arduino Mega1280 with TC4 shield (4 chan thermocouple I/F) and 16x2 LCD. Big benefit of this is that it is general purpose and can be set up to do more or less whatever you want, if you have the programming skills. It can also plug straight onto the hottop control cable and is a drop in replacement for the hottop controller (even takes its power from the hottop). One of the guys on homeroasters is working on that, but I am taking one step at a time. There is a lot of s/w out there already for roast monitoring/control. I only just got mine and have started with Bourbon as a first step. So far, so good but will be trying a few before I settle on the package that suits best. Apparently RoastLogger now supports arduino and PID control of the roaster, so that is on the list to try. I'm glad I didn't go with the CS DMM as I have been informed that the datastream format is not publicly available and the vendor has signed an NDA so can't tell anyone what it is. Seems to make a datalogger rather less useful if you don't know the format of the log, but perhaps I'm being picky as he is selling it for one main purpose and provides s/w to read the data. Another thing on the (ever growing) todo list is to get the CS roastmonitor s/w working with Arduino, just as a learning experience.

paranomia · September 2011

A long time ago I found somebody who was trying to reverse engineer the Victor86B protocol - this may give you a head start... CD display state, not the numeric measurement data. Each byte has the high order nibble set to its sequence number, starting from 1. A packet looks something like - 15 27 3D 47 5D 67 7D 8F 9D A0 B0 C0 D4 E8 The low order nibble contains the display data. As far as I am able to determine, each bit corresponds to a display element, and is set to '1' if the element is on, or '0' if it is off. The bits correspond to display elements as follows - Byte 1x - bit 0001 -> RS232 (?) - bit 0010 -> Auto - bit 0100 -> DC (not displayed) - bit 1000 -> AC The next 8 bytes encode the seven segment display values for the four digits. These are encoded in two consecutive nibbles. Byte 2x & 3y correspond to digit 1 (leftmost) Byte 4x & 5y correspond to digit 2 Byte 6x & 7y correspond to digit 3 Byte 8x & 9y correspond to digit 4 Taking the two nibbles together, the segment values are encoded - bit 0000 0001 - top right bit 0000 0010 - centre bit 0000 0100 - bottom right bit 0000 1000 - bottom bit 0001 0000 - top bit 0010 0000 - top left bit 0100 0000 - bottom left bit 1000 0000 - minus sign for digit 1, leading decimal point for other digits Byte Ax - bit 0001 -> diode indicator - bit 0010 -> kilo indicator - bit 0100 -> nano (or Farrad?) - bit 1000 -> micro indicator Byte Bx - bit 0001 -> speaker indicator - bit 0010 -> mega indicator - bit 0100 -> % indicator - bit 1000 -> milli indicator Byte Cx - bit 0001 -> Hold indicator - bit 0010 -> Rel indicator - bit 0100 -> Ohm indicator - bit 1000 -> Farrad (or nano?) Byte Dx - bit 0001 -> unknown or unused - bit 0010 -> Hz indicator - bit 0100 -> V indicator - bit 1000 -> A indicator Byte Ex - bit 0001 -> unknown or unused - bit 0010 -> unknown or unused - bit 0100 -> degC indicator - bit 1000 -> I don't know - this seems to be off for temp, and on for all other measurements.

UNM · September 2011

Paranomia, that looks like info on driving the LCD display, which can be a bit tricky, but most (not all) LCDs have a pretty standard interface and plenty of sample code on the net. Someone told me he found info from the RoastLogger site suggesting the Victor datastream is as follows (may not be the same as the CS DMM): Any data on stdout formatted exactly as follows will be read as temperature data and used by the RoastLogger: 0+123.45 1+201.89 The first character is 0 or 1 indicating device 0 or 1. This indicates the source of your temperature reading from thermocouple 0 or 1. The second character is always + this is used to ensure this is intended as a valid reading. The remainder of the line is a string representing a valid decimal number. It is suggested that you limit the number of decimal places to a maximum of 2 but you can use more if necessary. Any line of data not complying with the above is assumed to be a message to display and is ignored as temperature input.

paranomia · September 2011

on 1317290843:

...looks like info on driving the LCD display...

It's also a quick & dirty way of sending what's on the LCD to matching software at the other end. Hot off the wire ("received text" = "description of what's on the LCD")... "00 5B 37 1D 21 F1 36 4F 54 76 05 4F BF 6E 6C" = "020.0 *C Auto RS232 Hold" "00 7B 37 0D 21 F1 36 4F 54 76 05 4F BF 6E 6C" = "020.1 *C Auto RS232 Hold" "00 1B 37 3D 21 F1 36 4F 54 76 05 4F BF 6E 6C" = "020.2 *C Auto RS232 Hold" "00 FB 37 5D 21 F1 36 4F 54 76 05 4F BF 6E 6C" = "020.3 *C Auto RS232 Hold" "00 BB 37 4D 21 F1 36 4F 54 76 05 4F BF 6E 6C" = "020.4 *C Auto RS232 Hold" "00 3B 37 DD 21 F1 36 4F 54 76 05 4F BF 6E 6C" = "020.5 *C Auto RS232 Hold" "00 5B 37 DD 21 F1 36 4F 54 76 05 4F BF 6E 6C" = "020.6 *C Auto RS232 Hold" "00 FB 37 0D 21 F1 36 4F 54 76 05 4F BF 6E 6C" = "020.7 *C Auto RS232 Hold" "00 5B 37 5D 21 F1 36 4F 54 76 05 4F BF 6E 6C" = "020.8 *C Auto RS232 Hold" "00 3B 37 5D 21 F1 36 4F 54 76 05 4F BF 6E 6C" = "020.9 *C Auto RS232 Hold" Analyse That! said Evil Andy ;D

Lacehim · September 2011

I had the CS DM (It's was Victor 86B from memory) but never got it to work with my KKTO sucessfully. One day I would like to revisit it to try and profile my roasts so that I can repeat the same roast. I was using a bead sensor, but the temps where up and down like a yo yo, and you only had to more the cord and it would all colapse in a big heap! :o

Muscles · October 2011

Anyone successfully controlled a roast via software with a KKTO?

UNM · October 2011

And here it is. Output from the maiden voyage of the good ship arduino/Bourbon. Software from googlecode unmodified. Arduino Mega1280 with TC4 board and LCDadapter, no mods. Obviously modifications to come, but very happy with the usability for a first attempt. Saves a lot of scribbling with pencil/paper. ROR line is scaled by a factor of 10 so 10degree/min ROR shows as 100 on the scale. 'B' marks when beans added. FC is first crack, E is Eject. Numbers at the top are 'live' output, so meaningless once roast complete.

coffeehorse · October 2011

UNM - what are you roasting on? and any chance of a how-to? I was just about to pull the plug on a Uni-T 322 temperature logger for my WotTO, but this seems to be an interesting alternative!

Koffee_Kosmo · October 2011

I am no good with electronics & such things. Thats why I just read about them

Hard for me to participate if I don't understand the stuff Great at solving mechanical things though ;D KK

farmroast · December 2011

I'm using the TC4 with my TO top hybrid homebuilt. Using the LCD display and usb to computer. I control my heating element with a variac and added the ability to monitor the voltage. I'm using the custom Gesha program and an added voltage reading board called the "juice box" created by Bill who started the Arduino part of the project. Having good live BT RoR readings give a sense of the pulse of the roast. Great monitoring tool. I mostly just watch the LCD display and will hook up to the computer to record the graph and data csv. file. here's a pic of the guts when it was being tested and a screen capture of a roast

Lacehim · December 2011

farmroast, I think a few are working on a TO arduino TC4, you might want to check it out. http://www.bestcafes.com.au/forum/roasters-different-roasting-equipment/kkto-arduino-tc4/

UNM · March 2012

Someone elsewhere was selling a Victor 86b meter and I thought I should check current retail on them just out of interest. They are available for us$42.63 with free shipping worldwide. Site is dealexcel (mods feel free to delete reference if inappropriate) At that price, I am thinking of getting one just as a multimeter.

Koffee_Kosmo · March 2012

Not inappropriate Some specs & I see it has usb inter-phase

Product Model:VICTOR 86B Product Name:VICTOR 86B 3 3/4 Digital Multimeter Products:?Digital Multimeter Detail: VICTOR 86B 3 3/4 Digital Multimeter New type holster, streamline design? USB interface can connect to computer ,Large LCD anoloq bar graph display? Unit symbol display?make the reading clearly, display. Metallic screen board with strong antimagnetic and anti-interferential function Auto power off and alarm when stopped used after 15 minutes. Full function protection?anti-high voltage circuit design

Lacehim · March 2012

That victor 86B is the same as the cs one. You can use the roast logger software with it too http://homepage.ntlworld.com/green_bean/coffee/roastlogger/dmmdetails.html

Brett H · March 2012

Good to know! Great sleuthing guys!

Jonty · March 2012

So guys, thinking of hooking the Behmor up and logging. Only prob is I run an iMac........ Further found the Victor here for a nice price http://www.dhgate.com/victor-86b-3-3-4-digital-multimeter-tester/p-ff8080813265185901327150d0e255ba.html I'm interested were you have all sourced your thermocouples from and if any of you have had experience in roasting software for macs... I did see BF post above but would be interested in more detail. if any of you have it.

Koffee_Kosmo · March 2012

on 1330727674:

So guys, thinking of hooking the Behmor up and logging. Only prob is I run an iMac........ Further found the Victor here for a nice price http://www.dhgate.com/victor-86b-3-3-4-digital-multimeter-tester/p-ff8080813265185901327150d0e255ba.html I'm interested were you have all sourced your thermocouples from and if any of you have had experience in roasting software for macs... I did see BF post above but would be interested in more detail. if any of you have it.

Depends if you want a solid or wire probe KK

UNM · March 2012

on 1330683832:

That victor 86B is the same as the cs one.

I am pretty sure the vendor of that one informed me that it is NOT exactly the same and was modified to their requirements. Also it apparently uses a secret squirrel data steam that they are unable to release details of. Unfortunately I can't seem to find the posts where this was discussed :-| That being said, it may well just be a rebadging exercise as they are both known to work equally well with roastlogger. Jonty look at the dealexcel prices. Much cheaper.

Jonty · March 2012

UNM, thanks for that link. Such a cheap price: http://www.dealexcel.com/victor-vc86b-3-34-digital-multimeter_p1985.html Probe, was thinking solid KK.

UNM · March 2012

I bought both my probes on ebay. No problems with them. Slow to arrive, as they came from hong kong.

Lacehim · March 2012

on 1330733909:

I am pretty sure the vendor of that one informed me that it is NOT exactly the same and was modified to their requirements. Also it apparently uses a secret squirrel data steam that they are unable to release details of. Unfortunately I can't seem to find the posts where this was discussed :-| That being said, it may well just be a rebadging exercise as they are both known to work equally well with roastlogger. Jonty look at the dealexcel prices. Much cheaper.

UNM, you would think that if they went to all this trouble they would have spent another 5c and put a CS badge over the Victor 86B one :rofl: Nothing on mine said anything about being modified out of spec. It was just a plain old Victor 86B in a box. I think this is more likely CS trying to justify selling a $50 DMM for $100. Yes they provide the logging software, but the one I posted works with the 86B and would do the job too, and it'a also free to download I think.

on 1330735616:

UNM, thanks for that link. Such a cheap price: http://www.dealexcel.com/victor-vc86b-3-34-digital-multimeter_p1985.html Probe, was thinking solid KK.

Jonty, the CS software is windows only. The roastlogger software can run on linux/mac/win so try that. :thumb: Otherwise I have a cheap laptop in the FS section that would easily run the software and you can leave next to your roaster. Did I mention it was cheap? 8)

Beanz · March 2012

on 1330727674:

I'm interested were you have all sourced your thermocouples from

ITS in Coffs Harbour have many years of experience in temperature control and measurement. They make thermocouples to order so you can specify the length of probe, length of cable, bends and mounting threads / hardware. They are Australian Made which is good. I know that some professional coffee roasters are already sourcing their probes from ITS. Ask for David Rosser 02 6652 5500

UNM · April 2012

Discussing thermocouples on chat this evening and BF commented that the guys at http://www.tcaus.com.au/index.html are a good resource for connectors, thermocouples etc.

UNM · May 2012

Some time ago I added a PID controller to my espresso machine and it came with a 2 metre thermocouple. This was clearly too long and I finally got around to shortening it at the weekend. I found myself with over a metre of thermocouple wire and since I hate waste? Time for a five minute project - make two new thermocouples. It actually took a bit longer as the first attempt was not top quality. So what NOT to do: Do NOT follow instructions on the web to twist wires together, connect the untwisted end to one terminal of a car battery and briefly touch the twisted end to the other terminal. This will result in a piss weak spark and a really dodgy connection. The thermocouple wire is just too fine to carry the current. Instead do the following: Find some carbon electrodes. I used old electric motor brushes, but any cheap AA battery has a carbon electrode in the middle (wear rubber gloves when disassembling). You could also use artists charcoal, or a soft pencil lead, but they are fragile and harder to work with. If using an electrode from a battery, break in two. You will also need car battery, jumper cables (or a portable jump start unit as I used). Clamp the two electrodes, one in the end of each jumper cable. expose a small amount of both thermocouple wires (about 1cm). Using fine pliers, preferably needle nose (strong tweezers might do), twist the very end so the wires cross. Attach cables to battery if not using jump starter, don't let them touch. Hold the thermocouple junction against one electrode and briefly touch the other electrode against it. Result - big ass spark and clean weld (hopefully). Photo of final product:

JimG · May 2012

on 1336613409:

Instead do the following: ......

Excellent advice. The carbon is the key. I've made hundreds of probes using a similar method. The only thing I do differently is I grip the tips of the TC wires in needle nose pliers (the anode) and strike an arc against the carbon rod (the cathode). Nice and bright, isn't it? Jim

UNM · July 2012

a potentially interesting roast s/w package http://www.randomfield.com/programs/typica/ and as the recommended probe interface seems to be a 4 channel thermocouple to USB dongle, there is a chance the TC4/arduino setup could emulate this at significantly less cost.

JimG · July 2012

It could probably be done fairly easily.....once the interface is known. Jim

UNM · August 2012

Well, I requested a Victor 86D meter from DealExcel for my birthday and sure enough one turned up only a day or two after. Looks good and with shipping time of approximately one week, not too long a wait. Half the price of buying the cheaper 86B version from a local supplier. Minor issue with a corroded battery contact, but the meter is fine and has everything I want. Haven't hooked up to a PC yet and the manual is only in one language, off to track down an English version. A single bead type thermocouple is included.

cosmic_couple22 · November 2012

Greetings all I have just got back from Sydney with the new JYR 1Kg roaster (CCR 1Kg) and being new to this I am seeking opinion on my monitoring options. 1. 2 x Victor 86B, running roast logger (set up copying Bean Flying, hope you don't mind?) 2. TC4C + LCD adapter complete, running roast logger 3. Roaster Thing 2 channel box, running Roaster Thing Advice greatly appreciated Chester

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