Mobile coffee Ireland

Ratrodzcafe · August 2012

Figured I would throw up a few of my ideas here and see where I can improve or what should just be scrapped. My opinion is that the mobile coffee business and even coffee in general is still relatively young over here, and the quality of the product varies hugely from cafe to cafe and even from day to day in most circumstances. Dont get me wrong,there are some good independant roasters and even one or two quality cafes around but its usually more work than its worth to get to these places.
So heres what Ive got so far, Im pretty much up to speed with the council/legal side of things and after talking my idea over with a fabrication company I know im onto something original.Where Im stuck is the equipment side of things.Vans paid for and have a reasonable budget for the kit out.
Am not interested in going the franchise rout,tired of working for ppl that only see things in black and white!
Ive heard both good and bad stories abt using generators as a power supply, but mostly bad.Other options are deep cycle batteries or mains (good for events not for side of the road)Already leaning towards a Francino 2 group duel fuel machine,Grinder of course,blender,at least one double door undercounter fridge,pump and lighting.
Is a battery bank the best way to go,either charging from an alternator while driving or using solar to keep the power topped up?Is there much of a margin to be made buying green and home roasting?If theres anybody running a larger van with some info on their setup I would appreciate it.

Koffee_Kosmo · August 2012

Generator The problems most people get with generators are 1) They get a model that is to small for there needs 2) They don't modify the exhaust to make them quieter Just form a mental picture ? A V8 car can be made almost silent with a well designed exhaust system. the same applies to a generator, make it quiet so as not to interrupt trade or ones sanity and 90% of most issues will dissipate. A quality generator with a well designed muffler is more versatile and more cost affective than deep cycle batteries in my opinion Batteries Apart from the massive weight of the batteries themselves you still need to pay for recharging them They cost a bundle to buy To make up the 240 volts one needs to run most of your equipment you will require quite a few of them They will also need a special enclosure or they will take up valuable work area space They won't keep your heavy draw equipment running for hours at a time They may expell toxic gases KK

beanflying · August 2012

Hi and welcome to Crema

I will drop some more detail here in a bit just sorting out some forum behind the scenes stuff. I have a 2 grp Gas powered lever to take out of the crate next week and snap some photos of. IMO Your either up for one of these style or a generator of some sort, running the machine on batteries is possible but OTT for cost. Also do some research into AGM (Amalgamated Glass Mat) Batteries and not 'Deep Cycle' ones. The AGM's will be around long after the Deep Cycles are dead. A couple of good sized batteries and a 2000W inverter should look after the non machine stuff if you go gas. More later or ask away.

Brett H · August 2012

Hi R and welcome. I can't add much other than to say as a home roaster of many years it is an inexpensive and fun HOBBY. If you are looking to go commercial develop a relationship with your favorite roaster in your area and the benefits will fat outweigh the merge savings. Home roasting innitially is time consuming, not always consistent and difficult to ramp up volumes at the drop of a hat. You also have a huge advantage over franchisees in that you can chop and change suppliers if things don't go according to plan or if you feel dissatisfied, or better yet you can offer the best couple of blends in the district from one convenient mobile location!

Ratrodzcafe · August 2012

Thanks for the replies, Im thinking mixing power supplies is how im gonna go.I can get a pretty decent deal on a 2 grp lever gas machine and after a bit more reading am thinking gas is the way to go. The AGM batteries sound really interesting,more homework to do there. I think I'm looking to power at least one decent sized fridge,grinder,boiler,pump and hot water heater for taps,maybe a small undercounter ice machine and a blender. Maybe some sort of LED lighting run off a separate battery with a solar panel for charging. Think ig I can get 4-5 hours out of the batteries in the mornings that should cover me and have a plug in system that I can switch over to for events and for charging overnight.hoping to be up and running by October at the latest so plenty of work and questions still to come

conikal · August 2012

on 1345990757:

The AGM batteries sound really interesting,more homework to do there. I think I'm looking to power at least one decent sized fridge,grinder,boiler,pump and hot water heater for taps,maybe a small undercounter ice machine and a blender. Maybe some sort of LED lighting run off a separate battery with a solar panel for charging. Think ig I can get 4-5 hours out of the batteries in the mornings that should cover me and have a plug in system that I can switch over to for events and for charging overnight.hoping to be up and running by October at the latest so plenty of work and questions still to come

That sounds like a lot of electrical /battery power, weight and space, will be needed.. ( boiler & hot water for taps should be gas !) Make sure you calculate your total elect requirement and allow for DC/AC inverter inefficiency too, to ensure you size your battery set correctly. ( a single battery is not going to do it ! ) If you use those AGM , or any lead based battery system you can expect to replace them every year due to their limited cycle life. I would be looking at modern LifeP04 batteries ..( smaller lighter and 10 times longer lasting) They are expensive , but pay back in the long run.

Ratrodzcafe · August 2012

ment to include the boiler and hot water in with the gas side of things.Have a fairly decent sized vechicle lined up so space should be ok,just hoping I dont need to add air bags to compensate for the weight.

Koffee_Kosmo · August 2012

on 1346233269:

ment to include the boiler and hot water in with the gas side of things.Have a fairly decent sized vechicle lined up so space should be ok,just hoping I dont need to add air bags to compensate for the weight.

Depends on how bad the drivers are in Ireland :D I still think a generator is easier and better and more economical all round KK

UNM · August 2012

I would only go batteries if operating in an enclosed space where generator can't be run (and no available power)

conikal · August 2012

on 1346233269:

ment to include the boiler and hot water in with the gas side of things.Have a fairly decent sized vechicle lined up so space should be ok,just hoping I dont need to add air bags to compensate for the weight.

Ahh, Good. but even so work out how much battery capacity you will need. Example:- Even a small fridge will draw 200W ( continuous if used a lot ), so over a 10hr day thats 2000Whrs. You would need 2 BIG 12 v batteries just to run that fridge ! ..And i suspect you will need a bigger fridge than that.

Ratrodzcafe · September 2012

I know I'm gonna need more than 2 for sure,and defiantly gonna have to be a bigger fridge too.Not planning on running a 10 hour day on batteries,from what Ive read it's not a good idea to let th batteries run down below 50% so really enough power to run everything plus half that amount again, Hoping to run a few hours in the mornings,6-9 maybe and then a few hrs around lunch.Already have some contacts in the catering industy who seemed interested in using the van for functions and events too so probably run off their power supplies/mains when on their time. Plan to be up and running sometime in November at the latest.

Ratrodzcafe · September 2012

Been looking into the generator side of things again but with the cost of fuel and about 6k for something decent am still leaning towards batteries. Might have a space lined up at a busy train station for the morning/evening rush so pushing for the first week in November to be tested and running!any more info on the modified exhaust would be helpful though in case plan b is used instead:)

FreshCoffee2 · September 2012

when we did my sons van we ran 12 batteries (cant remember what type) @ roughly $400.00 Oz dollars each (close enough to 3 thou GBP?) with a double inverter system to power our 10 amp 2 group compact espresso machine and grinder, and an electric booster pump (until it failed and we simply allowed the pump in the machine to do the job. Nothing else was powered (milk and other stuff were in an expensive cooler) You try NEVER run them down past say 2/3 discharge....and 1/2 discharge would be better and then you go charge up. It was easy in the van because he would do a morning shift then go home in the middle of the day, leave the van on charge for a few hours and go surfing, then go out again in the evening. Charging off a household power outlet is the cheapest form of charge, over here. If you run the batteries down too far they dont last long. If you end up with batteries with disproportionate capacity ( some weaker than others), the stronger ones are pulled down to the weakest...so when you replace them, you should replace them all together or you are forever chasing your tail. For what my son was doing, he probably would have benefited (in the long run) by going with 16 batteries instead of the original 12. The cost of a bank of batteries is not all that much different to buying a REAL generator set (rather than an el cheapo pretend generater), only the inverter/battery bank will if managed well, not have the ongoing cost of sticking diesel or petrol in the tank as a genie does. Thats only the batteries however. there is also the cost of the inverter system and professional fit up which can be considerable. On a cost benefit analysis bwteen an inverter VS genie system over a period of years, the inverter system will end up about the same (or cheaper if you look after it) except you pay all the money up front, where as with a genie you keep paying out for fuel (always rising) and service...... Consider also inverter system and batteries are silent and dont produce exhaust to pipe away. Do it right first up (ie pay the ransom) no matter which way you jump, and reap the benefit long term. Do it on a shoestring, and forever chase your tail around continually bleeding out hard earned money. This is particularly salient for anyone considering the purchase of an el cheapo generator set. Hope that helps.

Ratrodzcafe · October 2012

Really big help,wasnt sure if anybody had managed to pull off a setup with batteries successfully. With the cost involved in buying/running a good generator it was never really on my list of how to run things. Solar isnt really an option to charge but was only planning on working a few hours in the morning and maybe a couple at lunch too,charging at home between shifts.Dont suppose you have any photos of the setup/build,could do with some inspiration for the layout of it all:)

Ratrodzcafe · December 2012

Figure I owe you guys a picture so heres my little project as she sits at the moment,cutting starts next week and should take about 10 days or so.Took a bit longer to get into the workshop but no turning back now:)

UNM · December 2012

Looks in really good shape for an N reg.

Ratrodzcafe · December 2012

Sorted the new reg just before Xmas. Just gotta get some nice irish plates stamped out soon as everything reopens after the holidays. Hope I look this good when I get to 38:) Still working on the layout but thinking coffee machine behind the drivers seat with grinder to the left,double fridge across the rear axel along with batteries,some counter space and have to fit in 2 sinks somewhere. Fresh water and waste tanks have to squeeze in too! Am going to mount a solid wood counter on some runners so when the side drops it slides out and locks into place. Menu board in the roof and maybe another in the form of a surfboard on the side somewhere. Some chocolate brown pin striping and some other little cosmetic details and that should do it I think but there's always something else;)

Brett H · December 2012

COMBI!!!! Looking good!!

Sub-Ju · January 2013

Hey there, I too would really appreciate any pix anyone has on offer as to set up...currently just bought a 2009 Nissan Vanette and are starting my journey to kitting it out..Am so far looking at a 2 hi group Expobar machine, with a honda EU65is generator..heard these are very efficient to run everything needed..On the hunt for a grinder and would really like to know where i would go to get some one to make built in fridges possibly stainless under my bench at rear of van..these seem to look way tidier but have no idea where to look for that.. Talked to the Honda dealer and apparently the gene specified doesnt have a pump on it?? so the option of hooking it into the main petrol line of the vehicle isnt really an option..as the petrol tank for the van would sit below the gene and it would need to be pumped up..something about if ya did it would end up flicking off a valve all the time? hmmmmm anyway going by what the rep said you could fill it with petrol in the morning cold and it would last the day anyway..my concern was is that safe to have it in an enclosed van, obviously with plenty of ventilation , i would need to shut down the gene each time i got in and drove to my next stop...also would love any pix of how the water tanks need to be set up?how big etc...thanks heaps guys am loving finding my way round this site and getting lots of positive advice...

UNM · January 2013

Not sure how much help I can be, as I have never done the coffee van thing. Fuel pump is easy to add. Web search for 12v inline fuel pump will get you started. Best mounted outside vehicle. Check generator can take the fuel line pressure it provides. Long as generator exhaust is external to van, you should be good. Think about what could go wrong and apply common sense. E.g. if a fuel line broke, you wouldn't want the generator mounted overhead. If running on self contained fuel tank, you need to be able to refill easily and without the whole van stinking of petrol. For built in fridges, I would look at local refrigeration engineers or shop fitters as sources of recommendations. Where about in nz are you?

Ratrodzcafe · January 2013

I should have some interior pics sometime this week so will put them up when I can. I've looked at both options for powering my setup.in the long run i think batteries are the better bet for me. There's not a huge difference in price between batteries and a generator but I couldn't stand the noise and extra cost of fuel for the generator. I'm putting a double fridge over the rear axels and will probably build in some storage around it.everything else is on quick release so it doesn't take hours to take out the coffee machine and drop in an ice machine or blenders. Found a guy locally to make some custom handle for the fracino and am gonna carve some artwork into the counter over the next week or so then level it with resin. Also going naked with one of the porta filters,maybe all depending on how it turns out:)

Brett H · January 2013

Nice one mate. We have a resident resin expert here on the forum so load up any questions you might have. Derrilex's work is first class and he may save you hassles when mating one surface to another.

Ratrodzcafe · February 2013

Seems cutting an old bus is a little more work than first imagined but progress is being made:) The roof has been opened up but a little problem with hinges being a little too weak means another day of waiting for parts. Got a little distracted and decided to cut a few holes !

Brett H · February 2013

Nice one Rad! Very clean cut!

Ratrodzcafe · February 2013

Roof is almost done:) Work starts on the side monday so should be all cleaned up by end of next week.

Ratrodzcafe · February 2013

Wish the space was mine:( had to outsource the cutting and welding,needs to all be covered for engineers reports etc to keep it all roadworthy. Am pretty handy with a welder and grinder though,been chopping a 70s beetle that should look pretty good when its eventually parked next to the bus:)

Brett H · February 2013

Awesome mate! Keep the photos coming... Lots of us here cheering you on!

Ratrodzcafe · February 2013

Little bit more gone...i mean done. Theres really not a lot of standing room, gonna have to be creative with the layout:)

Ratrodzcafe · February 2013

Side bits taking shape:) Just needs a little paint and some bondo and be looking good as new!

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2013

Slow and steady wins the race This build is looking wonderfully good Looking forward to the finished product Warmest wishes to a successful venture :thumb: KK

Ratrodzcafe · March 2013

Machines all in

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