What Is Your KKTO Technique?

Lwowiak · August 2015

on 1438349049:

Lwowiak, that,s a great result, 19 minute roast for a 800gm load. Was that without modifications to the heat guard?

Hi Gary, My heat guard has been modified, with a few circular holes cut out. Please note that the roast time would need to be an extra 90 to 120 seconds for this bean to be suitable for espresso. I roast light for plunger, but did try this roast as espresso. Even with a very fine grind, it had to be cut short. It was OK, but I prefer more body and sweetness (with less fruit) in my espresso. I know you roast reasonable quantities each week, hence your quest for 1kg capacity from the KKTO. I am not too worried about reaching the 1kg mark, but am more concerned with finding the sweet spot. As discussed, the heat is kept at max, so the only way to vary the time to first crack is by adjusting the weight of beans being roasted. It is up to personal taste whether a 13, 15 or 17 minute roast time to first crack produces the best result desired. I have tried 250g and 300g batches and found that using max heat resulted in very short roast times and a poor result in the cup. Lowering the heat and other tweaks would be necessary, but I believe that for the size of my roaster, at least 500g is needed to produce an ideal roast. The Kogan TO sounds interesting. I have a Rank Arena TO purchased from Deals Direct. They now have a Singer brand for about $51 on sale at the moment. http://www.dealsdirect.com.au/singer-16l-convection-oven-halogen-heating-bake-steam-roast-grill-broil-thaw-reh/ It is a bit different from mine and has a larger capacity. The lid arrangement is different to mine, and seems like it could fit snugly into the pot set.

bcspark · August 2015

I am still searching for the correct balance between air flow and applied heat. I use a Steinel HG2300E so I have plenty of air and heat available.My present mode is to preheat to 120deg with full air flow and about 20% heat,load and try to bottom at 60-70deg then roast to 1st at about 10-12 degpm reduce heat and keep roast going at 4degpm till bean mass heat gains to 2nd.My questions to all fellow roasters are;what heat should the beans reach on bottoming in other words what should be preheat be.Air flow as in convection roasting i.e drum roasters is low should this be the practice with a KKTO.I have read that air flow is needed to remove all undesirable gasses during.I have roasted with 50% air and bean temps are the same as 100%.At present with the HG I use full air and adjust heat to suit also with probe and CS program.Am starting to believe my technique to be needing refinement and am seeking advice .Thank you all bcspark

bcspark · August 2015

ps. This could help answer Lwowiaks question as to the difference between HG & TO ,i.e more control over roast profiles. bcspark

Koffee_Kosmo · August 2015

I recommend for TO use for larger than 650 grams of beans Pre heat the roaster for at least 2 TO cycles @ 250 deg -- Then add beans If you have a blend, it's best to do a stabilising roast to equal out the moisture content of the beans @ 125 deg for approximately 5 minutes this will give you better control and an even roast Then bump the heat up to 250 deg and start time of roast It's should also work for a Heat Gun but you may need to play around with the heat to find your sweet spot KK

bcspark · August 2015

Thanks KK for your advice most welcome.Going a bit senile I forgot that I have a program of heat &air flow on my HotTop.Am going to experiment with this on the KKTO and try to replicate the roast.If I may a discussion with you on the results would help me greatly to seek better results. Barry

bcspark · September 2015

Have done several roasts in my KKHG using a combination of 75% heat,quite a drop from usual,and and sliding heat control to maintain a good profile.So far I am finding more control and a 650grm batch reachers 1st at 194deg in 12 min and drop roast at 218deg in 17min, 4deg into 2nd crack at a cs9 finish.On reflection I did previously use. the lesser Steinel 2300E ,lesser air flow pressure,and am now replicating its performance.Roasting with less air turbulence gives a cleaner roaster with 99% of chaff contained in container.

GaryatGala · September 2015

Bcspark, What temperature would the Steinel heatgun read at 75% power on the dial, if there is one? Also what reading on the dial between first and second crack? Am still in the planning stages, but will perhaps use the Bosch 630 on fan 2 (medium) from the start til about a minute or two before first crack, then increase to fan 3 (highest) and lower temps for bean development. Would this sound okay? Just want some kind of guideline to aim for, then with more experience up the sleeve, can tweak and adjust, taste. On the coretto i was starting at 500 deg C on medium fan until first crack, then reduced to 370 deg C on highest fan speed til end of roast. Am guessing on the KKHG, increase temps by 50 deg C due to greater volume of the KKTO is warranted?

GaryatGala · September 2015

Would like to find out what settings Galumay is using on his KKHG too.

bcspark · September 2015

Gary I use a temperature data logger and tablet to give me all the information to make hg adjustments.There is no other way I know of to regulate heat.The Stienel hg series do not have this display option i.e. temperature at nozzle.

Lacehim · September 2015

I got a Rank Arena too when they were on special. Best TO I've had heat wise so after the previous 2 I can see that not all TO are the same. Hard to find out the good ones from the bad but they are pretty cheap at least.

GaryatGala · September 2015

Thanks for your response Bcspark. Am waiting for the Victor 86B DMM to arrive end of month so that I can hook up and log into the pc. Currently my 1 kg roasts on the turbo oven are tasting a bit flat/dull due to the long profile ( 25 min), so it's back down to 600-700 gm batches. As soon as the new roaster cover and heat gun goes on, the aim is to get the roast down to 17-18 minutes for 800gm-1 kg loads. How the silicon rings will last with the extra heat input, it will be a matter of finding out. In the past, have had silicon rings bubble and disintegrate when I modified the last turbo oven by removing the heat guard and angling the fan blades. My current oven (Homemaster 1400 watt) is with the guard on but with four holes cut out as per KK,s method. Interesting times ahead, and reports will follow. Lacehim, I agree TOs are not created equal. If for any reason the HGTO gives unsatisfactory results, I may very well try another turbo oven, perhaps the Rank Arena such as yours. Are they halogen or element?

Koffee_Kosmo · September 2015

Gary the Rank Arena TOs have a Halogen elements I use one as well KK

bcspark · September 2015

Since modding the KKTO I have not had to replace silicone parts. My top only reachers bean temp so the top seal is still soft and flexible after many roasts.

bcspark · October 2015

Been at it again never satisfied,that is my tradie nature.Have been wondering why during the roast cycle there has not been copious amount of blue smoke.Well I decided to preheat to 85+deg l graph and on three loads of 625grms set forced air at 66% and heat at full bore on the slides.Results were bottom out heat around 55deg and soon bean temp rise of up to 22deg/min.Sat tight and watched my DMM graph and on 3 different bean origins the bean only took what heat it needed to go to 1st crack 196 deg and ended up with rise or 10-12 deg/min to 190deg when the bean need the extra heat to reach 1st .At 194-198deg reduced applied heat to steady at 3-4deg and let the roast coast to 2nd 218deg.I am amazed at the results and now believe the little bean has its own knowledge.Beans were Ethiopian Gambella,Bolivia Vincete Paye and Indian Elephant Hills Peaberry and all were CS9 and 15-17 min roasts.

Brett H · October 2015

I love your approach mate! Let the tools/elements do the work!! Kudos.

Koffee_Kosmo · October 2015

On the last time we met we spoke about that very subject In the end - if you like the flavour profile then your on a winner KK

bcspark · October 2015

Now have tried no preheat to a 625grm roast with same HG technique,results the same.Also added a CS HeatSnob with latest software download and my profiling is so much more accurate.My son and I tested the new device against my two multimeters I had been using.The difference in the heat profiling were amazing and confirmed the HeatSnob to be more accurate.

GaryatGala · October 2015

Good to know of your improvements bcspark. Did you save any csv from the multimeter and heatsnob profiles? Would be interested to find out the markers for first and second crack for both meters as well as overall smoothness of plotting. Have just received a Victor 86b meter which took a whole two months to get here after a number of emails to the seller. The first one I had has given up the ghost after three years service.

bcspark · October 2015

N0 did not keep files but result o comparison with two Victors and HeatSnob showed th Victors to vary up to 10deg during roast.I have since done two roasts,325grm Panama Geisha on my Hot Top and the HeatSnob provided a great profile graph with more detail.Have to ask my IT son how to post from tablet to forum.

GaryatGala · October 2015

Have just completed the fibrocement lid for the koffee kosmo roaster. I cant call it the KKTO any more because it wont be using the turbo oven. Perhaps we could call it the KKHGR. Koffee Kosmo Heat Gun Roaster. Any suggestions? Will post pics of it in the appropriate thread. Will fire her up this weekend and log the roast

bcspark · October 2015

I have named mine KKHG.Will look forward to further news.

bcspark · August 2016

I am a longtime home roaster,in this period I have used in order,BabyRoaster on gas flame,corretto using Steinel HG2310 LCD HEAT GUN,KKTO had and modified TOs and then designed a stainless steel top for my KKTO and added a Steinel HG2300E industrial hg.Now during this journey I have learned so did the Turks and Italians,that green beans only take the amount of heat they require to roast.If this is not the case how did the Italian house wife,who did the daily roast control the open fire heat.Learning to roast by 3 senses sound ,sight & smell on the Baby Roaster began my train of thought on roasting.now I load650 grms of greens into a pre heated KKHG and apply full forced air and 425deg heat during the drying phase ,load to 100deg in under 5mins.Rate of temp rise could reach 20deg per min and will start to decrease at approx 130 deg bean temp to 10deg/min.At this point the gun heat is set to 545deg and remains so to maintain 10+deg/min to first crack.I then drop heat till 5deg/min is maintained till the beans give off their heat to take roast to second crack.Both first and second cracks are heralded by blue smoke beginning the phase and audible cracking sounds.

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