pod machines? pod plague ? pod haters ?

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• FreshCoffee2

  October 2004

  Hi Livid, coffee pods are generally viewed by fresh coffee traders around these parts as being mostly a con. The pod trader spins the cafe owner/manager a yarn about how using pods is much cleaner than running with a coffee grinder, and each pod is portion controlled so it's better for you to work your costings out with. Phooey, for the following reasons It's actually a way for the pod trader to tie you to his product in such a way that you cannot change (easily) to an alternate supplier. Eg Some pod manufacturers produce pods that differ in size or shape to other pod manufacturers. You need a pod holder to suit the diff type of pods or you cannot change easily. In addition, some pod traders will actually keep your normal group handles, in exchange for the pod holders. This gives them the opportunity to stiff you when you eventually ring and politely ask them to return your normal group handles because you would like to change supplier and or return to using regular coffee... The usual reply is and I quote: "When I receive my pod holders back, I will send your group handles back". How do you produce coffee while you wait for the group handles to be returned? How long will it take for the group handles to arrive? Those that know what it costs to produce a cup of coffee using "loose" coffee should rightly baulk at the price of the pod. This because the pod is individually packaged, within another package. The cost of production is unnecessarily inflated by the fact it is an individual portion of (relatively) minute size.....OR, in order to keep the price down the quality of the coffee grinds is compromised or is not what you might have wanted to use if using regular coffee. Those who pride themselves on using freshly roasted coffee will have to re evaluate, because if they switch to pods, which are packagaed and usually vacuum sealed, they will be using pre-staled coffee. You cannot pack fresh coffee, it gasses off and blows sealed packages. The coffee is also pre ground, which means that for those of you that subscribe to the theory that's its good or necessary to be able to adjust the grind /drop according to the individual situation, machine etc well, you cant do that can you? Most of the above is geared to cafes. And if you as a member of the general public buy a pod machine, you are likely to have no way out as you may not be able to get a normal filter holder for the machine. You therefore have paid (and sometimes very dearly) for the privelege of being tied up by the pod manufacturer ad infinitum both in terms of the machine that cannot be used to run regular coffee through, as well as to a supply of pods that may be priced at a very high level. A marketers dream come true. Oh and with regard to your comment re people embracing pod machines in France.....for some time in Europe there has been a marketing race for manufacturers to TIE domestic clients to them. It's not uncommon for espresso machines to be offered at very low prices, or even GIVEN AWAY at no charge, to retail domestic clients as long as for example, the client buys the equivalent of a few kilos coffee to start. There's always a catch, usually as already described above, you buy their pods, and you cant use the thing with anything else. Now what's a retail client going to do with a few kilos of coffee, nicely staled before packaging, and only going to get even worse before it's finally all used up a considerable period down the line, by the domestic client? So, what do both experienced operators as well as members of the general public, need pods for? And now, I respectfully turn the discussion over to the pro pod people. Cheers, FC.

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• lars

  October 2004

  Hi - understand that for the purists, the pod may not be the way to go, but what about those who want a quick, easy solution, or for those in a small office situation? Making a coffee in a manual (semi-automatic) machine can be a messy business and if you're not an expert (ie like the average office worker) you're almost certain to get a poor to very poor result. Personally i hate pods, but surely if you can get a brand where reasonable attention is paid to sealing in freshness, then at least you're going to get a consistently average result every time, which has got to be better than inconsistent or consistently bad coffee? Lars PS Livid - for what it's worth, from my experience in Europe, I would have thought France the land of crap coffee, if at all

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• FreshCoffee2

  October 2004

  Hello Lars, it really has nothing to do with being a purist or not, just that more often than not you dont get a decent cup of coffee out of a pod. Simply, and contrary to anything that you might be told by the "oh but its vacuum sealed &/or nitrogen flushed" brigade, "podded" coffee is stale, the portion or dose contained in the pod is not necessarily correct for this market (there are 6.5 gram pods out there, and they are too small / not suitable for our larger coffees - 8 to 9 grams is the right dose here because we use bigger cups) and in addition because the coffee is pre ground, and therefore ground at an "arbitray" grind, it is not suitable for any particular individual coffee machine. You know yourself, the grind suitable for one machine is not necessarily suitable for another, that's why coffee grinders are adjustable....the whole pod deal flies in the face of normal (not "purist") proper coffee brewing principles. Your observations re the office coffee environment are quite correct however and that is why manufacturers have been inventing and improving automatic espresso machines for around 20 years. Whilst some so called "purists" will tell us that auto machines do not make REAL espresso, the fact is that a freshly brewed espresso made with an auto machine using fresh beans, leaves a coffee made with a pod in a regular espresso machine for dead. All anyonme has to do is ask their taste buds. Most of the mess is due to milk frothing (sorry John I really meant to write "texturing" please excuse hehe) and all esp machine operators whether they are using pod, regular or auto machines make a mess and at work more often than not, dont clean up! Cheers, FC.

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• lars

  October 2004

  OK FC, I hear what you say, but what does this imply about famous pod brands like Illy - does that mean it's not fresh? -L

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• FreshCoffee2

  October 2004

  Precicely. It is coffee that has been treated in all sorts of ways to try and stop it from going stale. It's not fresh at all, who knows how old it is from the time of roasting, to the time it's opened to use. The business of packaging in order to try and stop coffee from going stale, and keep it in a form that will still render it useful when opened to use, is a very interesting subject. It will never however substitute for real freshly roasted product. Cheers, FC.

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• admin

  January 2005

  revived for New Year discussion... Admin

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• FreshCoffee2

  February 2005

  Hi Admin, it is appropriate to revive this one at this time. Last week, during the first of our coffee appreciation sessions for the year, a group of interested persons bought 3 different brands of beans from the supermarket, and together with a fourth blend of freshly roasted coffee (less than a week old) conducted a straight comparison between these 4  different types. It was done in a very fair and transparent manner, each lot of beans was ground to suit one only espresso machine, and each was then given a simple taste test by all the participants present. The object of the excercise was to see if the particular IMAGE portrayed by the marketing machines of each coffee company, could be substantiated through the quality of the resulting brews. This means, apparent "quality" of beans used VS form of pacKaging employed VS IMAGE projected VS simple taste test. The results as always...were most interesting! Regardez, FC.

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