Is Melbourne espresso crap?

Unknown · September 2003

Hi, just a quick note for this forum. I am the Melbourne coffee critic that wrote the article exclaiming that Melbourne's coffee is poor. I still believe that. The guidelines for a good espresso are: 25-30 sec pour for a 30ml shot, at 9 bar pressure. Now, thats only a rule of thumb, but if you can achieve that you will get a good espresso (subject to bleeding the grouphead if its been sitting idle for more than 10mins, as the heat exchanger in the boiler tends to overheat the grouphead, because the boiler water is circulated through the group head to keep it at the right temperature). Try one other thing, put a teaspoon of sugar on the crema of the espresso. It should all float on the crema, and not sink and dissapear until you stir it in. Thats all i ask. Most Melbourne caffes (and Syndey caffes, having been to sydney twice in the last month for bussiness, I have tasted poor coffee there too). The espresso must not only look good with a great thick rich brown red crema, but it must have a mouth feel that is light and creamy. Thats the test. its not hard to learn how to make a breat espresso, but it just takes a little attention, and at $3 a shot, i'll be sending bad espresso back to the barista from now on. Cheers [glb]TEXT[/glb]

john · September 2003

007 I think it is about time more persons took your stand. "If the coffee is crap then send it back!!!" How else is the Barista (??) going to learn? If you go to a restaurant and ask for a rare steak and it comes out charred. What do you do. Why should it be any different for coffee. I have no probs saying to cafes that I do not think their coffee is up to scratch. I am over the 10 second pour, from a dirty machine. I am with you all the way 007 (James) John

Unknown · September 2003

Thanks John. excuse my spelling mistakes in my previous comments, it should read "put a teaspoon of sugar onto the espresso crema, and it should not sink through". My concern is that the caffe I am referring specifically about is one of the top 5 caffe's in Melbourne according to this site. mmmmmmmmm.........scary really, especially when they write that the coffee is excellent day in and out. I know as a fact, the barista in that caffe changes every day, as the waitressing staff take turns to make the coffee. Some consumers have no idea. Cheers JB007

Unknown · September 2003

Hi Ashley at Crema Magazine.......how are you? Can you suggest to your people that when they run a spell check, they read what they check. I have written 2 posts to this site (see above, and thought that it had made spelling msitakes, then after the second time I realised that your spell checker is replacing "teaspoon" with the word "teasthing'. The post does not makes sense because of this. Please read the article first! Cheers JB007

john · September 2003

James ol boy I have mixed feelings about some of the nominated cafes.

lars · September 2003

i'm surprised you guys don't put your money where your mouth is - isn't there a request to vote for your top 5 cafes? -L

mimmo124 · September 2003

Do you people believe that it is big concern when the main barista or EMO goes on a break that an equally qualified or more importantly experienced coffee maker jumps behind the machine. The S*%t that is served up by some waitstaff that they believe is good is not acceptable. The main people with an interest in the running of their businesses should make a not of this when rostering staff. I find it unacceptable that at certain times of the day the coffee is good and at many times it is shocking. It cant be that hard to teach a few main staff members the basics behind a good coffee can it. Well i guess it can if there is no one around to teach them in the first place

Thats my three cents mimmo

Spjarli_Coffee · October 2003

What a load of tripe! Geez, some of you can waffle on. Answer the bloody question. In my opinion, and that's all it can be, the answer is No. Is every espresso in Melbourne great. No. Ditto for other cities. The way some of you crap on - "I'm a barista, you're a super barista, I have this qualification, my dad's bigger than your dad, yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah." Grow up! It's almost as though using the magical word 'barista' is a licence to have your hand on it in public and think it's cool. It's not, it's such a wank. Barista? Bah humbug. And that's my 2 cents worth. Now, can we talk about COFFEE?

admin · October 2003

Hi Spjarli - great to have someone new from Melbourne on the forum. Actually, the thread on Melbourne coffee started as the result of a local coffee drinker who was commenting on a well-known Melbourne cafe: "I purchase my espresso there every day, only because it is the only drinkable espresso in the street, but i must say, that i am able to produce an espresso from my domestic machine that would be much better that 98% of all Melbourne caffes. They under extract the coffee"... He goes on to say:

Spjarli_Coffee · October 2003

Hi Admin and thanks for your response, I

admin · October 2003

Hi Spjarli - no problem...FYI we have members from Qld, SA, WA as well as Vic & NSW; while one of the most prolific forum members is from Canberra. You have a point about the title of the post 'Australian' vs 'Melbourne' coffee, but in fact, it was partly to get more input from VIC coffee lovers that phrased the post as we did. The consensus seemed to be (in as much that you can generalise) that milk-based coffes in Melbourne were fine - it was with short blacks that there seemed to be a question. FYI, the Melbourne writer whose e-mail started the post was referring to Wall 280, where I'd always had good coffees (but they were all milk-based). Ciao -Admin

admin · November 2005

Interesting to see that the press in Melbourne has finally cottoned onto a subject we've been asking questions about for a couple of years. Epicure section of The Age in Melbourne has interviews with several senior Melb. coffee people in questioning the 'accepted wisdom' that Melb. is the Coffee Capital of Australia. The article talks about Melbourne being 'old school' and goes on to say: 'We have had 50 years of Italian coffee-mafia here, and some of Melbourne's "new school" roasters don't think that is all it's cracked up to be'. According to Justin Metcalfe [director of Cafe Learning, a coffee and cafe consultancy business & chairman of the World Barista Championship] 'we've got a coffee culture, but it is one influenced by the big commercial players'. And Wells Trenfield, a director of Jasper Coffee - and as passionate and stern a coffee advocate as you're likely to meet - puts it this way, and very measuredly: 'Melbourne: I have a strong view. We are mostly bereft of knowledge about coffee. We might be sophisticated about latte, but not coffee, particularly when compared to Sydney'. The article goes on to say: 'Heretical though it may sound to a Melburnian... Sydney, New Zealand and Seattle - which led the American boutique coffee roasting revolution - have better coffee'. Nice that what we've been saying for several years is finally being recognised! Admin.

Remus · November 2005

is this a trick question ? ??? i thought everything in melbourne was crap compared to sydney. 8)

admin · November 2005

Hi Remus - just a quick footnote with respect to the actual title of this post - it was really just to encourage vigorous discussion [partially prompted by the difficulties a local Melbournian was having finding a decent shot - see post at the beginning of this thread]. For the record, I love Melbourne; it's just that from a coffee perspective, I've felt a certain amount of complacency for a number of years... it's almost as if the thought is: 'we are the coffee capital of Australia; we have the best coffee, therefore we really don't have to bother' Best Admin

nzroaster · November 2005

Unfortunately you are all right!!! There is bad coffee in every city all over the world. You have to find the places that serve good coffee and support the (as many have mentioned). In regards to the cafe ratings I also have to agree, many who have coffee rated at 5 stars have served me undrinkable swill on more than one occassion. And going right back to the begining, almost 2 years, Espresso_Amore - get a clue! You import stale coffee! Italians may have started the espresso culture but to say that there coffee is soo much better than ours is as ridiculas as generalising sydney Vs melbourne coffee. I have some undrinkable robusta samples you might enjoy.

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