Ponte Vecchio Lusso - advice please?

mycuppa · October 2014

Thank you Moony 'ol chap. It is going out today and hopefully we don't get half the freight company employees taking an extra-long weekend. You can also crack it a bit early if you are keen. It was roasted using a funky new profile.

Moon · October 2014

Sounds good .. I'm really looking forward to it. I like funky Cheers J :thumb:

Moon · October 2014

Well .. mycuppa's suspicion ended up being pretty close to the mark My parcel had bean checked in at the local warehouse and labeled 'In Transit' all day.. At 7.20pm .. it's still In Transit .. I reckon being a Friday .. worst day to be on the road .. and a hot one .. I reckon the driver ended up knocking off early citing medical reasons. Dehydration and had to spend some time down at the local waterhole to re-hydrate. Lucky I moved a little earlier this time and didn't wait until I got down to my last few doses of beans. Monday is fine - as I still have about 200g of the other gear left, which should last me at least until the middle of next week. That means there is no need to hit the panic button .. as there are still some very tasty coffees to be had :coffee2: A cup in the hand is worth a dozen in transit 8)

C-man · November 2014

on 1412480319:

So, how was the day of no-espresso or as we call a day of non-espresso in the bis: n-espresso!? :thumb:

I think I hit a solid 9 with the plunger using Cosmic's 3 wave light fruity hipster roast I watched the water carefully as I could with a milk thermo. before pouring in onto the med. coarse grinds the result was very fruity and very floral, like cherry blossoms.

Brett H · November 2014

YEAH BABY!!! That's what I'm takin' 'bout!!!! Never underestimate s great plunger coffee. I brilliant freelance muso i to get to work with always drinks tea in our staff room despite knowing there's always s plunger on the go. Fresh Yirg, a twist of the arm and yes ladies and gents, another convert!!! Brilliant stuff Mooney!!!

C-man · November 2014

Brilliant stuff Mooney!!! [/quote] Not Mooney......Me

Brett H · November 2014

Not Mooney, no .... Meant to draw attention to our young student! See what can be achieved with a plunger. Come on Mooney!! That's better! Sorry for the confusion :coffee2:

C-man · November 2014

plunger is very underated

Moon · November 2014

Sorry d00ds. Finished the final leg of my search for at least 1 of the 2 plungers i have .. and no luck there I'm afraid .. so it's looking like I'll be missing out on the orgasmic plunger experience that both you cats have had recently. I'll put it down as a loss for Moony and simply slum it by having no other choice but to continue using my PV Lusso. On the positive side .. my 1kg of Barista beans have arrived just in the nick of time .. seeing my last 200g of the Sirius Classic had almost disappeared (cheers Dave) The timing was perfect! I've opened the bag .. and noticed that the roast date was Oct 28 .. which makes these beans only 6 days post roast .. only mycuppa did say that they were ok to crack open. The CO2 that had accumulated inside the bag was obvious (sensation, not odour) after the mandatory snort when opening a fresh bag of beans .. and seeing, according to mycuppa .. they should really be rested for at least 8-9 days .. I certainly won't be critical if they seem a little 'young' and short on the full flavour in the meantime. As expected .. my first cup was perfectly acceptable, considering .. and enough of a preview of what's coming in the near future. I used the same grind setting and method that I used for the last kilo of Sirius Classic beans .. which is a good starting point. Can't be too far off the mark with the grind.. and the use of fellinis was also close. Dose setting on the grinder needs to go up a bit .. and I'm guessing the tamp may need to go from Light++ to Light. Pretty decent overall for the first cup .. that can often end up taking a few goes .. resulting in sinkers while figuring out how to dial it in. I check the pour first... which ended up being 35 secs .. nice colour and good crema. I certainly get the feeling these babies are going to shape up very nicely .. which is good. 8) Shame about not finding a plunger .. only the consolation prize ain't bad at all. Business as usual. Cheers to mycuppa :coffee2: All going well with the coffee making over here :thumb:

Moon · November 2014

Barista blend - by mycuppa Roast date - Oct 28th (8 days) Initially backed the grind off .. then had to adjust finer and then a little. Lovely aroma when ground .. and mega crema. These beans should be starting to blossom over the next few days. The last latte earlier today rated around 9.15/10 .. and just needs a little boost in flavour - which I am expecting as the beans mature. The pour is around 35 secs for 27ml. So far .. so good

C-man · November 2014

Good to hear Moonman keep em coming. Brett- what do you reckon is better, pour over or plunger? slightly off topic I know, but just curious C-

Brett H · November 2014

I like the convenience of the plunger but the clean taste of the pourover!

Kevohere · November 2014

I would agree with that theory Brett.

Moon · November 2014

Barista blend - by mycuppa Roast - Day 12 From day 9 .. I noticed a change .. whereby the pour was running more quickly .. around the 20 sec pour .. so I've had to adjust the grind finer a few times. I also had to increase the time for the dose, as it was short.. which suggests to me that the beans were drying out a little with age. Tamp - Light Pour - 35 secs for 25ml 2 x fellini +1 Rating - 9.18/10 Nice even balanced coffee but without any highlights to boost it up to a 9.2 Now that I've got the dose, grind and tamp about right .. I reckon I may be able to squeeze a little more out of these beans with a little more practice. The beans are still developing .. so my $ are on Moony for the win. :thumb:

Kevohere · November 2014

on 1415504407:

.. so my $ are on Moony for the win. :thumb:

Good work! Confidence will get you there (almost) every time :thumb: and having it is half the journey in my view. :coffee2:

Moon · November 2014

Ok, after several Baristas I reckon these beans belong in the 9.1 < 9.18/10 category .. well, in my calculations anyway. I haven't bean able to score a delicious 9.2/10. This means these beans are still very nice, only on my gear .. and using my method - I just haven't bean able to crack the big time. Close .. but no cigar. Others no doubt would have more success with these babes. Anyway .. the coffee journey continues .. so i went back to read a review on the PV Lusso on the HB forum - which makes more sense once you've had some experience using a machine. The author mentioned holding down the lever for pre-infusion for only 3 seconds .. whereas I'd bean allowing about 8-10 secs. I now give it only about 3 secs to saturate the grinds before releasing the lever to squeeze out the first drops. Makes for interesting reading if you either have .. or interested in getting a PV Lusso? The comparison between the Lusso .. the way more expensive Cremina lever .. and the Silvia is worth a look. http://www.home-barista.com/ponte-vecchio-lusso-review.html

Koffee_Kosmo · November 2014

Moon - can you borrow a different grinder or better still a large conical, by doing so you may raise the scores I can guarantee you that you will have a taste difference even if the scores remain the same KK

Moon · November 2014

Hi KK Nah unfortunately - I'm the Lone Ranger in my circle when it comes to coffee and spending up on the coffee equipment. I would love to be able to compare my findings with a mate who had a pump machine with an e61 group. It would be great to have a 2nd machine myself, like others on these coffee forums so that I could alternate and try the beans on a different setup. From what I've been reading certain beans suit an e61 .. having the higher bar pressure (around 8 iirc) whereas others suit the lower starting point (6) and diminishing pressure of the lever action machines. The HB article that I have linked in the last post mentions this. i would have gone for a conical grinder .. only all that was available were either the cheapie or the very expensive large machines .. and I wasn't interested in a commercial sized grinder anyway. I have mentioned in recent times that the scores I've given for certain beans is more about my equipment and Barista skills than the beans themselves .. which would perform differently depending on the gear, the user .. as well as variables like storage, temperature, humidity etc. I do this to cover my arse, as I don't want to be bagging out beans that a Crema forum's Sponsor serves up. Fortunately, the ratings from these sources are still way up there, as was the case with your home roasted Yirg. I figure that so far I have managed to tread the thin ice without taking a cold dip ... so I reckon I must have the Coffee God in my corner. :angel:

Looks like 'ask the coffee guy' has a Cafe in Northcote .. so I intend to rock up one day, anonymously for starters - for a couple of lattes to see how he's going. Sounds like a cool joint from the reviews.

Moon · November 2014

As to the debate about which is better .. the conical versus the flat grinder, with my preference for the conical .. is due to the image of beans being ground between 2 cylindrical drums being the way that grains should be pulverised. As to whether this is the better or most efficient method for coffee beans .. I wouldn't know. From what I've read .. apparently the grinds from a conical grinder end up varying in size - which enables a broader range of flavours to be extracted .. whereas a flat burr grinds the particles to more of a consistent size .. therefore limiting the range of flavours extracted when the water passes through them. This suggests to me that the flavours from the flat burr are therefore more pronounced due to the size of the grinds allowing more of that flavour to be extracted .. whereas the conical would not create as many particles of that particular size, but adds many more dimensions allowing for more layers of flavour from the extraction to become available to the drinker's palate. From the description of the difference between the shots made from a lever machine, as opposed to one using an e61 group .. the type of shot that an e61 produces does appeal to me more than that from a lever machine. Until I can compare them side by side .. with a cup of each for a taste test - I won't know for sure which I would prefer. Seeing I have a lever .. I'll stick with a lever being more appealing to my taste .. at least until proven otherwise .. and I'm certainly not in any hurry to find out I may have made the wrong choice with that one .. well, not at least until I can afford the upgrade .. and it's not a case of the sooner the better .. Do I really want to drink a coffee that scores a 9.5/10 using a more expensive machine and grinder than what I currently have? Yep .. but only if I can get my hands on a pill that I can take immediately that will instantly cure me of that disease they call Upgraditis. 8)

Moon · November 2014

COFFEE HALL OF FAME According to Moon - using his Ponte Vecchio Lusso and Compak Touch Grinder !st GOLD MEDAL Goes to mycuppa - for his ETHIOPIAN YIRGACHEFFE Single origin - that was 7 weeks post roast. Yep .. you heard it right folks. 7 weeks .. unbelievable! The coffees made from these babies is the clear standout since purchasing my PV Lusso and Compak grinder back in December 2013. Rating - 9.5/10 - Outstanding! 2nd. SILVER MEDAL Goes to Jonty for his ETHIOPIAN YIRGACHEFFE and INDIAN TIGER MOUNTAIN Single origins that he generously sent me for a rating. Jonty roasted these beans himself in his Behmor roaster, and although both batches of these little critters were a very dark roast .. and as oily as all fu.. - they both blew me away. Rating - 9.4/10 on both counts. Sensational! 3rd. BRONZE MEDAL And only just pipped at the post .. is Koffee Kosmo with a flying finish with his ETHIOPIAN YIRGACHEFFE Medium roast beans that he cooked up in his own designed KKTO roaster .. that he also most generously sent me to try out and give a rating. Rating - 9.35/10 Delicious! HIGHLY COMMENDED Georges Coffee - Brunswick, Victoria. *Premium blend Rating - 9.25/10 Mission Control Coffee - Glenn Anthony - Tweed Heads Sth, NSW. *Major Tom blend Rating - 9.23/10 COMMENDED Sirius Coffee - Dave(Roman) - Glen Iris, Victoria *Sirius Classic Rating - 9.2/10 Sixty West - Elvin - St Albans, Victoria *Entire range - 9.18/10

* The Stuffed Turkey Awards - another time >:D

Kevohere · November 2014

Well done mate! What a great posting and review of your coffee brewing experiences. It may have appeared a bit critical earlier on in this thread but I can assure you, I have followed it and your ratings scheme with great interest and admiration of your efforts. :thumb: KK' suggestion to try a large conikal, if not only for the taste difference, also looking for a slight increase in your ratings, is a good idea and if one should become available, I'm sure you'll jump at it. (For me, the difference in the Mazzer Mini to my newly acquired [3rd hand] BNZ was very obvious). Meantime and importantly, enjoy your journey, the tastings and scores with what's at hand. :coffee2: Kevo

Moon · November 2014

Cheers for that Kevo. All my ratings have been a little down for a while now .. and after using new batches of Georges premium, Major Tom, and Sixty West - being very highly regarded previously .. each lacked clarity of flavour and bean a little disappointing. With the current batch of mycuppa's Barista - it did show a sign of lovely flavour in a couple of cups .. which suggests it is all there .. only I haven't bean able to tweak it to unleash the full flavour .. and no consistency .. well, err .. other than consistently below par. :tearhair: I haven't yet checked out the grinder blades .. as the grinder appears the most likely candidate for why the standard of coffees has dropped. I will also have to get some cleaning tablets for the coffee machine as well. I can't really see things improving until after these have bean dealt with. It's unfortunate that I don't have a friend who has invested in some good equipment .. who happens to be living down my way. Mid way through the coming year .. I will be getting a car .. so at least I'll be mobile incase I need to transport my gear anywhere. Bit difficult to get it around on my Vespa (Aprilia) type scooter that I have at the mo.. Coffees are still nice .. only a little bland compared to what I have bean able to produce in the past. I'll admit it .. I've become a bit of a coffee snob .. where a 'nice' coffee just doesn't quite cut it these days. 8) At least I get to point the finger at myself .. and not fork out $4 down at a Cafe for a sub-standard coffee. Now that's disappointing. :'(

Kevohere · November 2014

on 1416181956:

I haven't yet checked out the grinder blades .. as the grinder appears the most likely candidate for why the standard of coffees has dropped. I will also have to get some cleaning tablets for the coffee machine as well. I can't really see things improving until after these have bean dealt with. It's unfortunate that I don't have a friend who has invested in some good equipment .. who happens to be living down my way. Mid way through the coming year .. I will be getting a car .. so at least I'll be mobile incase I need to transport my gear anywhere. Bit difficult to get it around on my Vespa (Aprilia) type scooter that I have at the mo..

I have learned that as with ANY grinder, after a good clean there is a noticeable improvement in the cup. I pull mine down brush, vacuum and wash the washable at least every 2nd month. As with the brewing equipment, it's well worth the effort. :thumb: As far as the Vespa goes mate, a quick trip to India will show you how much you can load her up! Some of the sights I witnessed over there. ??? Unfortunately, (or fortunately) you won't get very far around the streets of Melbourne before the long arm of the law reaches out. :laugh:

Koffee_Kosmo · November 2014

on 1416181956:

I will also have to get some cleaning tablets for the coffee machine as well. I can't really see things improving until after these have bean dealt with.

A lever machine does not require a chemical flush What's needed is removal and a good clean of the water screen and all exposed areas of the brew head Do this on a regular schedule The other option is to pull apart the piston section for a service - However this is only recommended if you have pressure issues KK

Moon · November 2014

on 1416183574:

As far as the Vespa goes mate, a quick trip to India will show you how much you can load her up! Some of the sights I witnessed over there. ???

I'll assume it's more than the Africans can load up on their heads :rofl: I bought a Gaggia Baby on eBay a couple of years ago .. and picked it up on my scooter. It worked the first time and that was it .. was like a brand new machine. The repair guys told me they don't use carriers to transport their repaired machines back to customers, as they are a bit rough and machines have been damaged. I then figured that, although I used some padding - the vibration and bumps along the road could very well have caused the problem .. even though I blamed the seller for selling me a dodgy machine .. and tried to get a refund. He blamed me .. and said it worked fine 6 months ago when they last used it - and posted negative feedback saying that I was a scammer who wanted to get parts from it before wanting to return it. I had told him that I had one the same and wanted another one. He put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5. Cost me $50 .. a bargain for the first half of the story. Edit: Cheers KK :thumb: - that's a saving ;D just to finish off the story. I never got my refund .. and when I gave him neg feedback, he changed his listing to a Private Seller whereby my FB was removed. Mine, in all it's glory --> scammer ..was still up there in lights. Fortunately, it was removed after a few days .. and my perfect score reinstated. The repairer in Geelong charges $88 iirc to look at it .. and then there could have been the repair bill on top of that. Do I take the punt and pay the $88 .. and hope it is something quick and easy that doesn't cost anything .. or much .. or do I cut my losses and simply write it off and l just lose the $50 I paid for it? I went with the latter .. and it's still sitting in my cupboard taking up space. I'll never revert back to a Gaggia Baby to use it for parts. Thanks for the idea, at least .. seller.

Moon · November 2014

Here's how it all started Yep .. :-[ I too started out drinking Nescafe .. only my method of making a latte was to mix the granules with sugar to make a paste and then boil the milk. Fantastic! WOW! My housemate at the time had a cheap $80 Krupps that I began using, which she ended up giving me cause I loved it so much. I caught on after a while that every 4 weeks or so the water was coming out all milky, and wondered how many of these had I already been drinking? I'd flush the machine out until it ran clear .. and it was business as usual until the next time it happened. After several months of this .. I decided to upgrade and buy a new $200 Sunbeam from Myers and bought a $130 DeLonghi grinder after haggling the price down from $160. I was pretty chuffed with my brand new coffee setup Wowee .. coffee had never tasted so good and i was on Cloud 9 for the next couple of years. The machine carked it .. and figured that rather than paying $650 for a new Gaggia from the Coffee shop I purchased my Coffex Super Bar beans from .. I'd do the eBay thing .. and get a 2nd hand machine for the same retail value for hopefully only $100 .. which I did. It was amy first Gaggia Baby.. the one with the square buttons. This machine lasted about 2 years before giving up the ghost .. so I bought another 2nd hand DeLonghi on eBay for $100 .. thinking that if I get at least a year out of it .. I'm laughing. This is when I got my younger Sister interested in Coffee .. so I bought another Gaggia Baby on eBay .. yep .. you guessed it, for $100 .. and had it delivered to her place up on the Gold Coast. About a month later .. my DeLonghi developed an electrical problem, and seeing I figured I didn't want to run the risk of electrocuting myself, bought another Baby on eBay for XXX <--- yep. lol. Have to admit I was spewing that I decided to give the better machine to my Sister .. oh well. It lasted her a year when she decided to buy a new Lelit and grinder .. so she sent the Baby back to me which I used for another 12 months. In the end .. I got sick of having to jam a small screwdriver into the side of one of the buttons so that the steamer would work to froth the milk. It was then that I started to think about turning the dream into a reality and started looking up what a Silvia and Rocky grinder would cost? This was when I started doing my research and came across Coffee Snobs and Home Barista forums .. and then a little later this Crema forum to get advice and information on what experienced Coffee drinkers thought of the Silvia and Rocky. As you can imagine .. they didn't exactly set the flames of Coffee Heaven alight .. and this is when I started considering the idea of getting a lever machine .. mainly due to Lacehims posts on forums about the Ponte Vecchio Lusso. God Bless him. It came down to the PV Lusso, Electra Microcasa .. and the La Pavoni. A late switch over to the Bezeera PID machine nearly got the win .. until I received an email back from Italy to say that they had a red PV Lusso almost ready to ship if I still wanted it. BANG! .. it was a done deal! .. and coming up to a year later .. here I am. :thumb:

Moon · November 2014

Ok .. grinder cleaned and ready to go.. hmm needed a cleanup alright. Tipped the machine upside down several times and grinds were still coming out from somewhere. No worries .. all sorted. Damn .. spat out course grinds .. one turn too many. Ready to go .. beans ground .. pour too quick .. sinker .. adjust finer and roll again. Stat tuned.. it's a process ;D Yep .. heaps better .. and a much brighter coffee. Adjusted the grind slightly finer Then I remembered to do the shower screen and up around the inside of the group head. Bit of grunge there .. so back in business and ready to give these Barista beans a fair hearing next time. Blimey .. just missed out on the Hall of Fame Awards. Golly .. hope mycuppa ain't tuned in at the mo. ??? Cleaning of the grinder threw a couple of curved balls .. only easy enough after you've bean through it the first time. I need to get into the routine of giving the grinder a clean. On the video she reckons every 2 months if you use oily beans .. otherwise every 6 months. I'll aim high and plan for every 2 -3 months. :-* Cheers to KK and Kevo for the heads up ... Moon is back! .. again. :thumb:

Sent an sms to my Sister up there on the Gold Coast where I'll be staying for 10 days over Christmas .. that it is important to give her grinder a good cleanout .. which I said I'll do when up there. She has a Lelit grinder and coffee machine .. so i need to make sure it's in top shape for my coffees when up there. You know it makes sense. 8)

Edit: Yeah Kevo .. quite a lot of grind retention .. and after you think you've got it all .. out comes a heap more. Seems to me that regular vacuuming would only pickup some of the grinds but leave lots still in there .. same as when doing the carpet .. not that there's any of that dirt trap in my joint .. fake timber flooring all round .. which is good.

Kevohere · November 2014

on 1416197285:

Stat tuned.. it's a process ;D

Yep, we've all been there, done that. It can be a bit of a surprise just how much some grinders do retain. You can brush, blow and suck all you like during the week (or two), but when it comes pull down and major clean time........ "Where the #*^k all that come from?" ??? It's recently been mentioned elsewhere on this forum; Good, no, (consistently) great coffee = wastage. Dialing in and purging, helps us get through our (fresh) beans quicker which means if you home roast = more roasting. :coffee2:

Moon · November 2014

After reading prior to receiving my PV Lusso that the factory default setting for the thermostat was 1.5 bar .. and that this was too high and should be adjusted down to 1.1 bar according to some Coffee Gurus .. I did this, along with the insulation, before attempting my first cup. There was one catch .. I adjusted it to 1.2 bar instead of 1.1 :doh: Having noticed that the machine powers on at 1.2 bar .. and switches off at 1.3 bar .. I finally decided to open up the case and adjust it down to 1.0 bar .. so that the power cuts off at 1.1 bar .. which is when I'd pull the shot. I decided to drain the boiler and put fresh water in it .. as I hadn't been emptying the boiler each day to remove the 'stale' stuff - as some recommend to do. I took the easy/lazy option and not bother .. as I figured I was only putting enough water in each day for my 2 or 3 lattes .. and this would turn over the water so that it wouldn't get stale. Besides, I don't call filtered water that has been boiled 2 or 3 times .. stale anyway. Well .. after pouring out the litre of water in the boiler .. it gave me a .. YIKES moment. The water was a yellowy brown colour. Blimey .. what have I bean drinking .. what's this? A classic wtf moment right there. :-[ Anyway, I poured another litre in and gave it a good shake .. and tipped the machine upside down into a container in the sink to check the colour. Even more brownish than the first time. I then decided to get the white vinegar out and add another litre .. in a 50-50 mix with water, gave it a good shake and let it sit for half an hour. Another shake and poured it out. Crikey .. even darker. I repeated the rinse twice with water .. both times coming out clear. Conclusion: :lamp: I think I'll be pouring out the water from the boiler more regularly to check what I've bean drinking. Oh, and yep - the coffee tastes better ..no surprise there, although I reckon there's a flavour of some sort missing now. I think I can live with(out) that. :thumb:

Kevohere · November 2014

Hmm, seems there has been a very enlightening moment (or two) for you mate. Would it be safe to say that there is now going to be some slight increase in the rating scores from here on? :coffee2:

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